fasted3 0
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Jeff:
Nicely said....and well stated
peggs82 0
Ed.... please get your facts straight before passing them along like correct information.
As someone who has known you from BEFORE YOUR FIRST WINGSUIT JUMP, I thought you would have a little more integrity before bashing people who looked out for you and brought you into the discipline (specifically myself and jeff). Was this issue important enough for you to sling mud at your friends?
My first point - I am not, and never have been, a Flock University Instructor. My name may appear on the Flock University website, but no where does it list me as a "Faculty Member". I consider my MENTOR and ONLY TEAM MATE to be Chuck Blue. The only wingsuit school I claim is Z-Flock
Continuing on with that thought....neither is Taya Weiss, Jeff Nebelkopf, or Jeff Donahue part of Flock U. So 4 out of the 9 people involved with this project were NOT affiliated with Flock University.
Are we friends? Yes. Have we worked together before? Yes. Did you like the 71 way? Guess what...its the same team! No one said the 71 way was a Flock University conspiracy to take over wingsuiting...we were just a bunch of people who wanted to do something great for wingsuiting.
By no means was this a lovey "yes man" group. Many times I was personally offended by the heated discussions and arguments that went on. If you think this was a conspiracy to make Flock U the default trainers of the US, you are wrong wrong wrong. It was a bunch of people who care about safety and quality of coaching. Maybe our methodology and outlook on the issue differ from yours, but there is no reason to insinuate conspiracy and post FALSE information.
I took part in this because we were ASKED by the BOD. When the Board asks for my participation in a discipline I care about, you better believe that I will take part in it. To pass up that offer is foolish. I care too much to let some no name twat who may have never even seen a wingsuit make the only proposal which may (however slim a chance) get passed.
On all other discussion...talk to your RD's, email the BOD...thats the system. Myself and 9 other wingsuiters from the Boston area did just that this past weekend. Remember, this was ASKED for by a member of the BOD. If you don't like that idea, VOTE for people who reflect your thoughts.
Just because you shout the loudest on an internet forum does not make you right nor does it necessarily make you the majority. If you care..pony up and by a plane ticket for Dallas TX this week. I just did.
As someone who has known you from BEFORE YOUR FIRST WINGSUIT JUMP, I thought you would have a little more integrity before bashing people who looked out for you and brought you into the discipline (specifically myself and jeff). Was this issue important enough for you to sling mud at your friends?
My first point - I am not, and never have been, a Flock University Instructor. My name may appear on the Flock University website, but no where does it list me as a "Faculty Member". I consider my MENTOR and ONLY TEAM MATE to be Chuck Blue. The only wingsuit school I claim is Z-Flock
Continuing on with that thought....neither is Taya Weiss, Jeff Nebelkopf, or Jeff Donahue part of Flock U. So 4 out of the 9 people involved with this project were NOT affiliated with Flock University.
Are we friends? Yes. Have we worked together before? Yes. Did you like the 71 way? Guess what...its the same team! No one said the 71 way was a Flock University conspiracy to take over wingsuiting...we were just a bunch of people who wanted to do something great for wingsuiting.
By no means was this a lovey "yes man" group. Many times I was personally offended by the heated discussions and arguments that went on. If you think this was a conspiracy to make Flock U the default trainers of the US, you are wrong wrong wrong. It was a bunch of people who care about safety and quality of coaching. Maybe our methodology and outlook on the issue differ from yours, but there is no reason to insinuate conspiracy and post FALSE information.
I took part in this because we were ASKED by the BOD. When the Board asks for my participation in a discipline I care about, you better believe that I will take part in it. To pass up that offer is foolish. I care too much to let some no name twat who may have never even seen a wingsuit make the only proposal which may (however slim a chance) get passed.
On all other discussion...talk to your RD's, email the BOD...thats the system. Myself and 9 other wingsuiters from the Boston area did just that this past weekend. Remember, this was ASKED for by a member of the BOD. If you don't like that idea, VOTE for people who reflect your thoughts.
Just because you shout the loudest on an internet forum does not make you right nor does it necessarily make you the majority. If you care..pony up and by a plane ticket for Dallas TX this week. I just did.
fasted3 0
Please tell me what mud I slung and I will sincerely beg your forgiveness for doing so.
I state no conspiracy, but why not comment on the fact that MOST of the contributors to this come from the same place. My intention was to show the closed nature of this thinking rather than a conspiracy. When I discussed this with my non-wingsuit friends this past weekend, they attributed it to a USPA conspiracy. Go figure.
The fact that you were asked by the USPA to provide a ... whatever this is ... does not give you and/or your friends free reign to regulate everything you want.
Please understand that I still like everybody and hope they will feel the same towards me. If you think this amount of regulation is needed, by all means try and get it done. I think I've raised some fair questions about it, and openly disagree that it is called for. At the same time, I've commended this work and think it should be incorporated into the standard FFC. Just because I would not like to see it as a regulation does not mean that I'm against it, or anybody.
I didn't think I passed along any false information. Please let me know what that was so I can correct it.
I state no conspiracy, but why not comment on the fact that MOST of the contributors to this come from the same place. My intention was to show the closed nature of this thinking rather than a conspiracy. When I discussed this with my non-wingsuit friends this past weekend, they attributed it to a USPA conspiracy. Go figure.
The fact that you were asked by the USPA to provide a ... whatever this is ... does not give you and/or your friends free reign to regulate everything you want.
Please understand that I still like everybody and hope they will feel the same towards me. If you think this amount of regulation is needed, by all means try and get it done. I think I've raised some fair questions about it, and openly disagree that it is called for. At the same time, I've commended this work and think it should be incorporated into the standard FFC. Just because I would not like to see it as a regulation does not mean that I'm against it, or anybody.
I didn't think I passed along any false information. Please let me know what that was so I can correct it.
But what do I know?
No better yet.....
Apparently lines have been drawn, sides chosen, allegience pledged over the past few years.
So I guess its now time for "COLORS" in wingsuiting?
Time for Prospects and earning "Full Patch"
Time for Territory? Us vs. Them? An occasional fight at a boogie or two to "settle things" once and for all.
Seems to me wingsuiters are fast becoming the 1% ers of skydiving and we are heading in this direction.
There seems to be some very hard feelings out there and it doen't look like its going to change.
Maybe we don't have to get along anymore. Maybe we need to stop trying and just end the discussion.
Maybe we need to accept that too much damage to good will and trust has been done in our little "wingsuit civil war"; and it won't get fixed. Too much ego and pride.
While try to reconcile the irreconcilable?
Apparently lines have been drawn, sides chosen, allegience pledged over the past few years.
So I guess its now time for "COLORS" in wingsuiting?
Time for Prospects and earning "Full Patch"
Time for Territory? Us vs. Them? An occasional fight at a boogie or two to "settle things" once and for all.
Seems to me wingsuiters are fast becoming the 1% ers of skydiving and we are heading in this direction.
There seems to be some very hard feelings out there and it doen't look like its going to change.
Maybe we don't have to get along anymore. Maybe we need to stop trying and just end the discussion.
Maybe we need to accept that too much damage to good will and trust has been done in our little "wingsuit civil war"; and it won't get fixed. Too much ego and pride.
While try to reconcile the irreconcilable?
mccordia 74
QuoteDo you know all the circumstances/details behind the others whom you cry foul or are you going on what you have heard?
I was THERE when people where trained Scott.
I have video's of said person(s) training low timers. I was THERE, protesting what they where doing. There was no error in info on their students experience level. It was a deliberate decission to do so.
And its only a matter of public image by which you choose to steer this conversation in a different direction.
Quote***And you answer this one.
Would mentioning the names of the 'corrupt' BMCI's result in them publicly accepting responsibilty for what they did?
Or will they ignore it, and continue their biz as usual.
Lets not focus on just one camp, as it crosses over into all of them.
ANSWER THE QUESTION scott.....
Will we EVER see any of the self-proclaimed instructor-instructors having to take ANY responsibility for what they do? Or (again) do they live above their own laws?
QuoteHave you ever considered that some of those people whom you have issue with found themselves in the same or a similar situation as you did?
As mentioned, I was THERE when it happened. I can even point it out in video to you if you want. Its not hear-say. Its KNOWING.
QuoteTo try and steer this back on topic, the real issue here isn't about crying over milk spilt in the past,
This is happening NOW..not in the past.
Quotebut how the USPAs involvement would do a better job. How would it change anything from how it is now and more importantly, how would USPA rated wingsuit instructors be held accountable for their actions and who would enforce it?
Like any instructor in other diciplines. Not adhering to rules, get a slap on the fingers, or worse, loose your rating.
You could take people up in a wingsuit straight off AFF, and still keep flaunting your BMCI title everywhere....
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
JohanW 0
How much beer for a BMCIQuoteYou could take people up in a wingsuit straight off AFF, and still keep flaunting your BMCI title everywhere....
Johan.
I am. I think.
I am. I think.
kallend 2,111
QuoteQuoteI'm still waiting to hear what the actual proven problem is that your proposal will be sure to fix.
Since this request (in various forms) has been put forth by several people now, I'm starting to wonder if it's being intentionally ignored. An "inconvenient question" perhaps?
Still no answer - I guess it's being intentionally ignored.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
DSE 5
QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm still waiting to hear what the actual proven problem is that your proposal will be sure to fix.
Since this request (in various forms) has been put forth by several people now, I'm starting to wonder if it's being intentionally ignored. An "inconvenient question" perhaps?
Still no answer - I guess it's being intentionally ignored.
Nothing can be proven to fix anything, regardless of whether we're talking about bug spray or hitting Mars with a probe.
No answer regardless of how intelligent or unintelligent it may be, will not satisfy you. Fatalities and bad instruction tend to bother me; you don't give a shit.We differ in philosophy.
Skwrl 56
QuoteStill no answer - I guess it's being intentionally ignored.
Well, I have zero interest in wading into this discussion any more than I have, but that statement is disingenuous.
The question has been answered by Spot several times: in a nutshell, it was a perceived problem with the existing instructors, in terms of quality control, and a perception that there was no consequence to being a shitty instructor. It may not have been put in the form that I just did (a quotation of Brian’s or your writing followed by a response), but it's been addressed. In painful detail. On both sides. Ad nauseum. Like to the point where I want to go, "Please, merciful Jesus, make this thread go away..." And I'm an atheist.
Whether you agree or disagree with Spot’s response is another matter entirely (and, like I said, not one I have any interest in championing at this point, since this thread has devolved into just a stream of gibberish), but it was addressed.
[Shrug.]
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography
Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork
Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork
DSE
skwrl
Since Dan Kulpa's fatality was mentioned in this thread as one of the triggers, mixed with above statements, I would now have to assume his instructor did a shitty job and is not good at what he does.
This is not what I think about this instructor. And Dan was my friend.
As much as I like and respect people behind this proposal, I don't think an official instructional rating is the solution in this situation.
Life, however, tends to prove me otherwise sometimes so I'm curious to see how it all turns out.
In the mean time, I hope everyone enjoys their summer puffy surfs.
QuoteFatalities and bad instruction tend to bother me; you don't give a shit.We differ in philosophy.
skwrl
QuoteThe question has been answered by Spot several times: in a nutshell, it was a perceived problem with the existing instructors, in terms of quality control, and a perception that there was no consequence to being a shitty instructor.
Since Dan Kulpa's fatality was mentioned in this thread as one of the triggers, mixed with above statements, I would now have to assume his instructor did a shitty job and is not good at what he does.
This is not what I think about this instructor. And Dan was my friend.
As much as I like and respect people behind this proposal, I don't think an official instructional rating is the solution in this situation.
Life, however, tends to prove me otherwise sometimes so I'm curious to see how it all turns out.
In the mean time, I hope everyone enjoys their summer puffy surfs.
kallend 2,111
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm still waiting to hear what the actual proven problem is that your proposal will be sure to fix.
Since this request (in various forms) has been put forth by several people now, I'm starting to wonder if it's being intentionally ignored. An "inconvenient question" perhaps?
Still no answer - I guess it's being intentionally ignored.
Nothing can be proven to fix anything, regardless of whether we're talking about bug spray or hitting Mars with a probe.
No answer regardless of how intelligent or unintelligent it may be, will not satisfy you. Fatalities and bad instruction tend to bother me; you don't give a shit.We differ in philosophy.
If you can't present any evidence of a systemic problem (and the two fatalities that you cite, however unfortunate, do not even indicate a problem with individual instructor quality, let alone a systemic problem) then I think the BOD will be quite unimpressed.
"On a personal note, I was with the decedent and his instructor moments before the skydive, and can't agree with the posts disparaging the instructor.", DSE, Jan 2, 2009
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,111
QuoteDSE
QuoteFatalities and bad instruction tend to bother me; you don't give a shit.We differ in philosophy.
skwrlQuoteThe question has been answered by Spot several times: in a nutshell, it was a perceived problem with the existing instructors, in terms of quality control, and a perception that there was no consequence to being a shitty instructor.
Since Dan Kulpa's fatality was mentioned in this thread as one of the triggers, mixed with above statements, I would now have to assume his instructor did a shitty job and is not good at what he does.
This is not what I think about this instructor. And Dan was my friend.
.
DSE agrees with you:
"On a personal note, I was with the decedent and his instructor moments before the skydive, and can't agree with the posts disparaging the instructor.", DSE, Jan 2, 2009
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
It just so happens that most of the contributers to this proposal are from Flock U.
I don't have a problem with that; Flock U represents the pinnacle of wingsuit flying in the US, IMO.
As for the proposal being viewed as going further than is called for, I will stand by that. I like the new sylliblus for wingsuiting. I would strongly support it as a recommendation. Please do not mistake my comments as being critical of Flock U. I am not, and I support them in the goal of making wingsuiting as safe as it can be.
If I disagree with the method that is currently being discussed, it does not mean that I disagree with the goal.
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