Malfunction Video

[jdatc 0]

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Use the right pouch for the environment in which it is intended. The BASE pouch is designed for use in a BASE environment where missing the handle the first time could be very bad. It isn't intended for use on skydives where there are more variables that can contribute to a premature opening. I understand some people go from one to another and prefer to have the handle in the same spot(funny that I have yet to see a BASE jumper with a pouch on a pair of tracking pants because they also BASE a wingsuit. Their PCs are always in a BOC.). However, I can also say that I have yet to see a PC in a BASE pouch on a skydive either on the ground or in the aircraft that didn't look like it was at risk of falling out or coming out prematurely on exit. Plenty of people jump the BASE pouch on skydives without issue but why put yourself or others at risk unnecessarily if you don't have to? There is no benefit to using a BASE pouch on a skydive but there is on a BASE jump,use accordingly.

I think the base pouch also has a place in the skydiving envirmonment when you fly right down to deployment altitiudes and fly a lot of solos against yourself for distance and times....

As for the base pouch sizing, it isn't really tailored for a skydiving pilot chute, that should be obvious to anyone. I use a larger appropriate base pilot chute, and if you fold it correctly it holds pretty well....

No where near as good as a spandex pouch of course, but that discussion has been hashed out before.

The tracking pants arguments is silly. I based my impact using my BOC, right after the go fast games.... I have made zero skydives since approximately may/june using the boc, but I have made a bunch of base jumps using my BOC..... going back and forth isn't that hard in terms of jumps. Come on now, you were kidding about that right?

For me the benefit is the following;

1. When I finally get the cojones to base the wingsuit, and not chicken out with the impact, I am ready and current with the pouch;

2. When I fly my suit down to deployment altitudes, I don't miss my PC.... I don't worry about the burble, and I don't fumble with it.... Plus a base pc and bridle has a little more 'snatch' force...

3. I think the risk is rather small in the scope of things using the pouch in the skydiving environment. There will always be the chance of prematures, but using the right pc, packing method, caution and flying appropriatly should minimize that. There will be risk in every part of skydiving. It's risk management....

I may be relatively inexperienced compared to some of you guys, especially Jarno and Scotty, but I will continue to use the base pouch skydiving unless I am involved in something where someone objects, or the situation dictates. It's right for me, and for some others deending on their goals I think ..


_justin

[mccordia 74]

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I don't worry about the burble, and I don't fumble with it.... Plus a base pc and bridle has a little more 'snatch' force...

I think 90% of your reasons to jump the BASE pouch are mental ones....
'the burble' doesnt come into play, untill after your release the pilotchute (at arms stretch). And there is no reason why you couldnt store that same bridle and pilotcute in your BOC pouch.

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It's right for me, and for some others deending on their goals I think ..

For solo practice jumps...definately...
For group jumps...you are definately endangering those you fly with..premature deployments with the BASE pouch are quite common..

The direction the wind is moving over your suit, is the excact way the pilotchute needs to be pulled to get it out.
Jumping this setup in groups, and especialy (as you mentioned) doing barrelrolls (where the relative wind hits the pouch with a big burst all of a sudden) is definately adding a lot of unneeded variables to your jump and the people you fly with.

If its full-flight openings you are worried about, then dont do those on flocking jumps.
But again..I always do full-flight pulls, without as much as half a linetwist in the jumps Ive done so far, and the reach/grab/pull to the pilotchute is always quick and direct, without hesistation.

Especialy if going back and forth between BOC and Pouch doesnt bother you...do yourself and the people you fly with a favour, and resort to the normal, intended BOC pouch for group jumps.

If missing your pilotchute is what you worry about, pull 500 ft higher?

As you say, the risk of things going wrong is small..but its there..why risk it? Do you want to be the one taking someone else out?
The pilotchute slips out of the BASE pouch quite easy, and bumps and sliding passed someones hand, a doorframe or just hitting an unexpected gust of wind during a transition...it definately happens..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[jakee 1,564]

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I think the base pouch also has a place in the skydiving envirmonment when you fly right down to deployment altitiudes and fly a lot of solos against yourself for distance and times....

2. When I fly my suit down to deployment altitudes, I don't miss my PC.... I don't worry about the burble, and I don't fumble with it....

Unless you have an incredibly mini rig then believe me, this isn't an issue on a Phantom - the wing just is not big enough to get in the way. You're no more likely to fumble the boc in a Phantom than on a non wingsuit skydive. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "flying down to deployment altitudes" but I've flown my Phantom to several sub 2k openings this summer and never once had a moments fumble, or even felt like I might.

Not saying you're right or wrong to use the BASE pouch, I have no experience on it, just saying that this part of your reasoning is an imaginary issue.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[LouDiamond 1]

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As for the base pouch sizing, it isn't really tailored for a skydiving pilot chute, that should be obvious to anyone. I use a larger appropriate base pilot chute, and if you fold it correctly it holds pretty well.

Well seeing how most people who use it for skydiving look like they have a giant grub on their leg ready to explode, I am sure the much larger BASE PC doesn't make the situation any better in a skydiving environment.

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The tracking pants arguments is silly...... but I have made a bunch of BASE jumps using my BOC..... going back and forth isn't that hard in terms of jumps. Come on now, you were kidding about that right?

Obviously you didn't see the humor in that statement but you proved the point I was making. The excuse heard sometimes about why people use the BASE pouch on skydives is because they BASE their wingsuits and don't want to change the pull location for fear they would grab in the wrong location at pull time. Sounds good and seems to make sense at first glance but when you see a guy BASE his wingsuit with a pouch and then later BASE without the wingsuit where is his PC? In the BOC of course. So the excuse really holds no water. If you can switch from pouch to BOC in BASE and not get confused about where to reach why can't you use the BOC in a skydiving environment where you have more time and altitude than most BASE jumps come pull time? You understand the previous statement about tracking pants now?

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For me the benefit is the following;

1. Thats valid if you are doing solos in a skydiving/Ballon environment in preparation to move to BASE and use the pouch.

2. That may sound good but makes no sense when you examine it. You should be pulling at an altitude in skydiving that puts you still at an altitude above most BASE exit points. Yeah, you can take it lower but you run into the possibilities of getting grounded/booted from the DZ and have to worry about snivels/mals on a skydiving canopy that you wouldn't on a BASE canopy. The reasons you list in #2 are VALID reason for using the BASE pouch in a BASE environment, not skydiving.

3. Funny, I heard the same thing from several people who have had premies using the BASE pouch in skydiving. A plane ride later I found myself stuffing that persons PC back into the BASE pouch because its fallen out of the pouch or is hanging out while we were on the ramp. Think about what would happen to the people around you if your PC falls out on a ramp/door and makes it out the door into the air stream before everyone has exited? You mention risk management as a defense but in fact risk management involves removing all the controllable probables from a situation that you have control over. Has the light bulb come on yet?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Zeemax 0]

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I've flown my Phantom to several sub 2k openings this summer and never once had a moments fumble, or even felt like I might.

If this wasn't in a BASE environment, can I ask why you pulled so low?

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[jakee 1,564]

Because I wanted to, and I felt comfortable doing it, especially with the kit I have at the moment, a lightly loaded rectangular main famous/notorious for fast and consistent openings.

Still, I probably won't do it again, and once I finally scrape together the money for a new canopy then I definitely won't do it again.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[980 0]

I agree with you that other than practice jumps, there is no good reason to use the BASE pouch on wingsuits when skydiving.

I disagree that the BASE pouch is a non-secure place for your PC while skydiving as a general statement.

I cannot speak for any suit other than the V2, but on my V2, with a 9' kill-line bridle and custom 28" Asylum AV series PC (it has large mesh and is quite bulky) with the shrivel sleeve, the PC is very secure in the BASE pouch.

This is largely due to how I pack the PC.
No bulk under the elastic at the pouch mouth, just the plastic pipe handle sticking out.

Most people I have seen skydiving (and BASEjumping for that matter) the pouch, get some PC bulk under the elastic at the mouth of the pouch and I think this is how the risk of a premature deployment is increased.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "I've flown my Phantom to several sub 2k openings this summer and never once had a moments fumble, or even felt like I might."
& WHY?
" Because I wanted to, and I felt comfortable doing it, especially with the kit I have at the moment,"
..............................................................


Everyone I've heard talking like this (in skydiving ) is either dead or scared back to 4000' deployments.

If you keep pushing it to the limit the limit WILL get you.... one way or another. At 400jumps in 4 years you don't really know how shyte can easily happen to over-confident low-experience people.

Out of the first 3 wingsuiters I flew with for my first 40 flights in skydiving world ALL of them are dead admittedly wiped in the BASE environment . I got to hear too many little chats like yours.

You want to learn to fly sub-2000' try the BASE environment . In skydiving getting down there in a wingsuit is just unnecessary.
That's what BASE jumping's for.

[BenediktDE 2]

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The suit was a GTI. The reason for the frontflip/unstable pool unknown..

He toled me he had a pilot chute hesitation and looked up to it by trying to look under his arms. This made him flip and end in the situation you described. Scary one - he toled me he did 3 further WS jumps later and was never able to enjoy it.

Well, since he is a very good atmonauti flyer he might be able to fly in some flocks I've been in.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[michalm21 2]

Yeah man, he will be able to use that gravitational wind to his advantage