flyinggoose 0 #1 October 30, 2003 In Suffolk, VA they say we'll jump through the winter (my first season). Is there a risk of the face shield icing over? Are goggles a better option? It's starting to get a bit nippy at 14000. "Never waste a heartbeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #2 October 30, 2003 Protec with a 'headsock' underneath and ski goggles work fantastic. Fourteen grand in the winter is plain nuts. I'd be much more worried about your hands frezing - I bet you'll find 'winter jumps' are largely hop and pop in variety. Still, check out some former threads (especially BillVon's comments on the 300 way) and you'll find that a visor WILL be a problem. [mr Garrison] Icing is bad, n-kay [/mr Garrison] Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #3 October 30, 2003 I jump full altitude in the winter all the time (as long as we have enough to run the otter ) As long as I keep my hands and feet warm, everything else is gravy. I used to jump with a visor on my factory diver. It iced over once on a cloudy day but was fine most of the time. It was also old and all the anti-fog had worn off. I now jump w/ glasses so no need to worry. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #4 October 30, 2003 Hmmmm, I'm guesing New Yawk must be warmer than Winterpeg at altitude. I've recently read on a winter jumping forum thread that the reason our extremities get cold has as much to do with core body temperature dropping as anything. Given that we lose 80% of our body heat through our head, maybe there is something to be said about a sealed full face lid. I like that theory. I also trust BillVon who said that visor icing was "an issue" on the 300 way. My trick to solving this problem while racing cars in the winter was to use a headsock - or whatever else keeps the moist breath from hitting the cold visor directly. It is the absolute moisture tolerence differential between warm air (your breath) and the cold surface that causes the problem. Anything that keeps them apart will help eliminate the problem. Holding your breath is not a viable option Do tell, what's the ambient temp at altitude at 14k mid NY winter? Our fall jumps take us down to about +10f waering RW plus a layer or 2 from 9.5k. Winter jumps, to me, mean -10 on the ground! Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #5 October 30, 2003 Here in new yawk, Winter means 20-30F on the ground. From the winds aloft, if I recal, I've jumped in -40 at altitude. (i dont know if thats farenheit or celcius). Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #6 October 30, 2003 Well, Johnny, 40 celcuis is 'no shirt and a beer in the shade' weather so I'm guessing you're dealing with farenheight. Minus 40 farenheight is also - 40 Celcuis (the scales coonverge right about there) and you must be made of stone to sustain that temperature! Good on ya... I guess. I'll never see it and my DZO would'nt (doesn't) allow it. We jump down to 0f on the ground, that's it. You can't push-start a Cessna and my hands go numb much below about 10f at the top (9k) even in neoprene gloves with liners. Taking another 50f off SHOULD leave you unable to feel your handles... and pull (not a nice thought and I've been there). Even USPA suggests "gloves should be worn where the ambient tamperatue at altitude is below 40f". The real issue, besides bravado, is - does the temperature gradient between your breath and the outside air cause a potential icing condition? I'll stick to hop n pops in ski gear and see if I can get my DZO to let me (attempt to) swoop wearing my yard long ballet skiis Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #7 October 30, 2003 QuoteIn Suffolk, VA they say we'll jump through the winter (my first season). Is there a risk of the face shield icing over? Are goggles a better option? It's starting to get a bit nippy at 14000. I jump in the winter in Chicago, and have not had a problem with my full-face helmet icing over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 October 30, 2003 QuoteI like that theory. I also trust BillVon who said that visor icing was "an issue" on the 300 way. It was an issue on the 300 way. They were also exiting from an altitude far above what you usualy jump from. Things change fast as you climb higher. I have had no problems winter or summer with my fullface. I don't wear it much anymore, but thats for different reasons.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #9 October 30, 2003 At my DZ we jump at full altitude all through the winter... I believe it only gets down to about 10 F here at altitude though. But to answer your question, I haven't seen anybody at my DZ have their face shield ice up. If you go with full face, just leave the visor up until you are about to step out the door. Open faced helmets can get really cold with a 120 mph windchill, but you don't really notice it then. Its only under canopy that you really feel it. Try an open face with a bandanna or "face-sock" thing, I see lots of people do that. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #10 October 30, 2003 We do jump in winter (normally we are below 0C from October till late March... and oh yeah, it sucks... ) Yes, fogging might be an issue. Things you can do: - breath correctly (with your mouth) - adjust liners of the helmet (so they don’t block the airflow from your mouth to the vents) - as everybody says - close visor right before climbout - some mild soap with warm water or a solution of warm water and some Baby Oil prevents fogging for a while (apply and let it dry, or remove excess with soft cloth – works for a day) Thing you SHOULD do: Always include helmet removal in you emergency procedures, and train it. We had a nasty incident last winter when a guy wearing a full-face could not deploy his reserve after a cutaway. He dislogged reserve ring but did not pull it far enough, so the reserve pin was not released. His visor was completely fogged/iced up and he could not see the reserve ring not being pulled completely. Cypress save. Always be ready to dump your helmet. Remember that in winter visor which fogs in freefall will very likely ice up completely under canopy. When I jump a full-face it’s a Z1. Right after I clear my space (even before I release toggles) I either flip the visor open or just release the neck lock and push the whole helmet to the back of my head (pushing the opening button of Z1 while wearing heavy gloves might be tricky). If you open the visor, make sure it stays fixed in opened position. A frosted visor which flips down when you’re in the corner might be fatal. Respect your gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 October 30, 2003 My fullface, which I very-rarely wear at all, is an old-school original Factory Diver (just like the GK comp team wears). It does not get THAT cold in North Carolina, but when I was wearing that helmet regularly, it would certainly ice on me on occasion, no matter how much or how new the anti-fog was. This, with waiting right up to climbout prior to pulling it down. More to the point, the damn thing would want to condense when I was under canopy and that was a far worse problem for someone jumping a tiny crossbraced canopy. I found ways around that (pulling the helmet up a bit after undoing the velcro), but I still generally loathe full-face helmets. Yes, they are very quiet and much warmer, but the problems associated with them keep me from enjoying those benefits. I guess it just boils down to what you are willing to put up with. Lucky for me, it only very-rarely gets so cold here in NC that I feel I "need" to wear it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #12 October 30, 2003 QuoteI still generally loathe full-face helmets quite clearly you were inspired by a different character Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBKid 0 #13 October 30, 2003 Has anyone ever tried one of these? 140mph on a motorbike all through UK winter, and it'll keep a clear visor all day. Just a thought. Nick --------------------------- "I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #14 October 31, 2003 huh huh, I live in Florida.....Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinggoose 0 #15 October 31, 2003 Alot of good feedback here. I'm mostly paying attention to the NC people as I am only 20 miles from your stateline. I am concerned with the humidity here. I have gotten mixed signals in this forum as well as my dz. Now I will show my complete ignorance. What about Rainex or something like that? Does it degrade the faceshield that much? What do the Harley riders do? Has anyone asked those guys before? Just thinking out of the box. Goose "Never waste a heartbeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #16 October 31, 2003 I have jumped in MD, PA, VA generally all winters long now for going on 8 yrs. I have had "better luck" with some full faces over others, although ALL OF THEM can and HAVE iced up, depending on conditions & handling, and this is a valid concern. Just another country heard from for this thread for ya is all.... I'm intrigued by that link to the anti-fog/ice adhesive film. Has anyone actually ever used that who can perhaps comment more on it here? Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
