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fergs 0
Thanks Jarno and Ed (and others?) for getting us back on track. Let’s stay away from the “my suit’s better than your suit” arguments and comments. The purpose of this thread was not to critique the Blade against other suits – even though I did compare it’s performance with other suits that I have owned and flown previously.
The purpose of the pic, Blade side by side with a V-2 was simply for everyone to get a good visual on two top end suits side-by-side. And guess what, one is not flying better that the other. That’s because we are flocking – that is, flying relative to each other in a 2 wingsuit formation. And that’s what a good flock should always do, let a gaggle of wingsuit flyers fly in close proximity, flying at the comfortable-for-all pace that’s been set by the leader.
The leader of the flock has responsibilities far beyond simply having others get into formation with him. He SETS THE PACE, such that everyone is comfortably flying. This usually means no-where near his max. Remember – that’s what we used to do in our former lives when we’d do those hot RW dives? The leader must also guide the flock to the correct opening point. This is quite a complex action, critical for the safety of all – especially with other groups in free fall in the same sky and often with cloud around.
In fact, in a number of Australian drop zones, it is legal to jump through cloud (with specific strict procedures adhered to) and so we have been known to flock over total cloud. In some instances, this does not pose undue threat, as long as the leader navigates and leads correctly all others flock correctly with him. But in others instances, it is extremely dangerous. So not only is the leader sometimes leading a flock over eight eights cloud, at other times it’s he who must call for the flock to stay in the aircraft.
But I stray from the thread myself – back to the thread’s original subject. The Blade.
The Blade is a fantastic body-flight vehicle. So are many other wingsuits. I have found that my Blade excels in a number of areas that are important to me. I’ve mentioned these previously. I’m 6’ and close to 240 lbs (110 kgs) exit weight. So I’m nowhere near the ideal physique for wingsuit in the first place. No, I’m not overweight – I’m just 6 inches too short. BUT – my Blade certainly helps me to grow those inches in a very practical way, due to her design and build.
The guy flying beside me in the original pic is an ideal WS height and weight (tall, thin and light). He is an extremely talented and highly experienced WS pilot. And if he had wanted to, he may have been able to fly rings around me, maybe not. But he and I don’t play the “my suit’s better” game – we simply fly our own wingsuits to their limits when on our own – but comfortably, relative to each other when flocking.
It’s the beauty and serenity of wingsuit flight that is the only thing that matters. Think about it – we are the only ones who really know why the birds are always singing. And we do so in whichever wingsuit we choose to own and fly. For me, that’s my Blade. You?
So get out there and spread the love!
fergs
The purpose of the pic, Blade side by side with a V-2 was simply for everyone to get a good visual on two top end suits side-by-side. And guess what, one is not flying better that the other. That’s because we are flocking – that is, flying relative to each other in a 2 wingsuit formation. And that’s what a good flock should always do, let a gaggle of wingsuit flyers fly in close proximity, flying at the comfortable-for-all pace that’s been set by the leader.
The leader of the flock has responsibilities far beyond simply having others get into formation with him. He SETS THE PACE, such that everyone is comfortably flying. This usually means no-where near his max. Remember – that’s what we used to do in our former lives when we’d do those hot RW dives? The leader must also guide the flock to the correct opening point. This is quite a complex action, critical for the safety of all – especially with other groups in free fall in the same sky and often with cloud around.
In fact, in a number of Australian drop zones, it is legal to jump through cloud (with specific strict procedures adhered to) and so we have been known to flock over total cloud. In some instances, this does not pose undue threat, as long as the leader navigates and leads correctly all others flock correctly with him. But in others instances, it is extremely dangerous. So not only is the leader sometimes leading a flock over eight eights cloud, at other times it’s he who must call for the flock to stay in the aircraft.
But I stray from the thread myself – back to the thread’s original subject. The Blade.
The Blade is a fantastic body-flight vehicle. So are many other wingsuits. I have found that my Blade excels in a number of areas that are important to me. I’ve mentioned these previously. I’m 6’ and close to 240 lbs (110 kgs) exit weight. So I’m nowhere near the ideal physique for wingsuit in the first place. No, I’m not overweight – I’m just 6 inches too short. BUT – my Blade certainly helps me to grow those inches in a very practical way, due to her design and build.
The guy flying beside me in the original pic is an ideal WS height and weight (tall, thin and light). He is an extremely talented and highly experienced WS pilot. And if he had wanted to, he may have been able to fly rings around me, maybe not. But he and I don’t play the “my suit’s better” game – we simply fly our own wingsuits to their limits when on our own – but comfortably, relative to each other when flocking.
It’s the beauty and serenity of wingsuit flight that is the only thing that matters. Think about it – we are the only ones who really know why the birds are always singing. And we do so in whichever wingsuit we choose to own and fly. For me, that’s my Blade. You?
So get out there and spread the love!
fergs
Gadget 0
Hear,hear. I couldn't agree more
If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
My logbook
My logbook
runnit 0
Hey Fergs, good to see you haven't changed since I last ran into you dude. I've been real slack with my wing suiting lately eh, been running on my head too much and getting used to my new Crossy
Having said that, I'm looking to upgrade from my GTi in the near future so, at the risk of dragging this thread back into a big pissing contest, is anyone out there able to give an objective comparison between the high performance suits?
Eg - suit A had an awesome top end, but struggled, when flying dirty in a flock; suit B had good lift, but kind of lacked the forward speed in suit C; D and E were pretty similar etc.
Something useful like that . . . 
BJ
I've got very limited wingsuiting experience compared to most on this board, so consider my opinion accordingly (i.e., with a grain of salt).
Blade, Ghost, Super Mach 1 - They all have incredible range; can be backflown very well; can be flown dirty while maintaining maneuverability; have an impressive performance top end.
The following is only a list of pros and cons that separate the suits in my opinion.
Super Mach 1
Pros:
- Most performance (speed and lift) of any suit I've flown so far.
- Airlocked inlets keep wings absolutely rigid, no flappage at all.
-- Gigantic wings stay inflated during pull making it easy to find handle.
-- Inflated wings keep performance even when grippers are released.
- Easiest to wear (zipper from toe to throat makes getting in the suit very simple).
- Takes less than 1 minute to attach to rig.
- Appears to be the most durably made.
- Amazingly quick order turn around.
- Customer service is top notch and company is in Florida, not Europe (i.e., quick shipping).
- Constant comments from other jumpers on how freaking huge the wings are.
Cons
- None. Didn't you get the memo that this is the Tony Suit advertising forum?.... jk
- Most physically demanding suit I've flown.
- Easy to fly stable, but steeper learning curve to fly well (again, this is all just my experience).
- Can be a bit wobbly when maxing out (Jeff himself compared it to flying on the edge of a knife).
- Airlocks are a double-edge sword as they make collapsing the leg wing while in flight almost impossible. This makes maneuvers like barrel rolls very difficult (I still can't consistently perform them on heading, though I can with every other suit)
- Questionable cutaway system.
- Constant comments from other jumpers on how freaking huge the wings are.
Ghost
Pros
- Very easy to fly (and fly fairly well). I took to it immediately
- Physically easy to fly.
- Great gripper design, very ergonomic.
- Airlocks do not inhibit collapse of leg wing, making barrel rolls and other transitions as easy as other suits.
- Very stable while maxing out.
- Familiar cable cutaway system.
Cons
- Though I found it easy physically, many people reported the exact opposite (most were transitioning from Phantoms).
- Airlocks appear to only prevent leakage out the opposing inlets and do not maintain the same rigid inflation as the SM1. This results (sometimes) in significant tail flappage when flying dirty or backflying.
- Big arm wing can get in the way of the handle at pull time since the wing loses inflation when brought back to pull position and the fabric goes loose.
Blade
Pros
- Airlocks are like the Ghost in that they do not inhibit leg wing collapse/acrobatics. But unlike the Ghost, I never had any tail flappage.
- Despite the big arm wings, this suit may have had the lightest arm pressure of any big-wing suit I've flown so far.
- Arm position felt the most natural and easy to adapt to.
- Easiest suit to backfly (of the 3) in my experience. In my first attempt I didn't lose any fallrate and was able to maintain flocking performance without much effort. The arm wings have light pressure even when backflying.
- Very stable while maxing out.
- Familiar cable cutaway system.
Cons
- Like the Ghost, the arm wing deflates in pull position and the loose fabric can get in the way of the handle (yes, even with the scalloped edge).
- I experienced immediate loss of lift when releasing the grippers to make a dock (several times). I was able to subsequently compensate for this in anticipation.
I've got a Super Mach 1 and I like it the best, but ultimately, I've realized I would have been happy with any of these suits. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably buy a Ghost and a Blade just to have them since there was enough of a difference between the 3 that they each had their own "flavor".
Hope this helps.
Brian
Blade, Ghost, Super Mach 1 - They all have incredible range; can be backflown very well; can be flown dirty while maintaining maneuverability; have an impressive performance top end.
The following is only a list of pros and cons that separate the suits in my opinion.
Super Mach 1
Pros:
- Most performance (speed and lift) of any suit I've flown so far.
- Airlocked inlets keep wings absolutely rigid, no flappage at all.
-- Gigantic wings stay inflated during pull making it easy to find handle.
-- Inflated wings keep performance even when grippers are released.
- Easiest to wear (zipper from toe to throat makes getting in the suit very simple).
- Takes less than 1 minute to attach to rig.
- Appears to be the most durably made.
- Amazingly quick order turn around.
- Customer service is top notch and company is in Florida, not Europe (i.e., quick shipping).
- Constant comments from other jumpers on how freaking huge the wings are.
Cons
- None. Didn't you get the memo that this is the Tony Suit advertising forum?.... jk
- Most physically demanding suit I've flown.
- Easy to fly stable, but steeper learning curve to fly well (again, this is all just my experience).
- Can be a bit wobbly when maxing out (Jeff himself compared it to flying on the edge of a knife).
- Airlocks are a double-edge sword as they make collapsing the leg wing while in flight almost impossible. This makes maneuvers like barrel rolls very difficult (I still can't consistently perform them on heading, though I can with every other suit)
- Questionable cutaway system.
- Constant comments from other jumpers on how freaking huge the wings are.
Ghost
Pros
- Very easy to fly (and fly fairly well). I took to it immediately
- Physically easy to fly.
- Great gripper design, very ergonomic.
- Airlocks do not inhibit collapse of leg wing, making barrel rolls and other transitions as easy as other suits.
- Very stable while maxing out.
- Familiar cable cutaway system.
Cons
- Though I found it easy physically, many people reported the exact opposite (most were transitioning from Phantoms).
- Airlocks appear to only prevent leakage out the opposing inlets and do not maintain the same rigid inflation as the SM1. This results (sometimes) in significant tail flappage when flying dirty or backflying.
- Big arm wing can get in the way of the handle at pull time since the wing loses inflation when brought back to pull position and the fabric goes loose.
Blade
Pros
- Airlocks are like the Ghost in that they do not inhibit leg wing collapse/acrobatics. But unlike the Ghost, I never had any tail flappage.
- Despite the big arm wings, this suit may have had the lightest arm pressure of any big-wing suit I've flown so far.
- Arm position felt the most natural and easy to adapt to.
- Easiest suit to backfly (of the 3) in my experience. In my first attempt I didn't lose any fallrate and was able to maintain flocking performance without much effort. The arm wings have light pressure even when backflying.
- Very stable while maxing out.
- Familiar cable cutaway system.
Cons
- Like the Ghost, the arm wing deflates in pull position and the loose fabric can get in the way of the handle (yes, even with the scalloped edge).
- I experienced immediate loss of lift when releasing the grippers to make a dock (several times). I was able to subsequently compensate for this in anticipation.
I've got a Super Mach 1 and I like it the best, but ultimately, I've realized I would have been happy with any of these suits. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably buy a Ghost and a Blade just to have them since there was enough of a difference between the 3 that they each had their own "flavor".
Hope this helps.
Brian
Brian Drake
mccordia 74
QuoteBlade Cons
- Like the Ghost, the arm wing deflates in pull position and the loose fabric can get in the way of the handle (yes, even with the scalloped edge).
- I experienced immediate loss of lift when releasing the grippers to make a dock (several times). I was able to subsequently compensate for this in anticipation.
The arm wings deflating at pulltime?
Its definately not something Ive experienced flying the Blade in the +- 140 jumps I have on the suit now.
Though Im bound to be called a brand-monkey, I would dare say that the Blade is one of the best suits out there when it comes to wing pressurisation.
Making docks or flying completely without use of the grippers (unless its 100% full flight at which you're trying to dock) does not lead to any sinking or performance drop in the jumps Ive done. And docking/gripping/flocking and making cool hand gestures in flight is about 90% of what I do in the sky.
I think a big reason for this 'drop' is people not creating a good wingshape with their arm, but 'hanging/pulling'the grippers too much, not letting the suit inflation work for them, but 'pulling' or forcing the wing into the shape. When you let go, and the wing doesnt have the tention all off a sudden, it looses shape and collapses.
When flown properly, with only mild tension on the grippers, it shouldnt give you any deflation or drop..
If you browse though our extensive video library at our website, there's dozens of videos with docks/pulls etc in there, and its all 100% inflated wing Im seeing there.
Especialy in transition from front to back. I completely tuck my arms and legs in, and it just feels like inflatable beds stuck between my arms and legs. And when Im on my back and I open up the wings again, they are still inflated.
I would ad the Con that the legwing can be especialy hard to shut down at pulltime. Im used to opening in full flight, but when you try to shut it down by closing the legs together, or even more fun, try to do a frontloop (preferably not a pulltime btw:) the legwing can get in the way, as you really have to squeeze the air out.
When it comes down to just max flight performance, I would say that most high performance suits are closer matched, in terms of what they can do, then most manufacturers are willing to admit...
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
QuoteThe arm wings deflating at pulltime?
Its definately not something Ive experienced flying the Blade in the +- 140 jumps I have on the suit now.
On my second flight with the Blade, the arm wing fabric was deflated enough that it was loose and covered my handle, causing me to have to move my arms out to the side again before moving back for a second try. Obviously, since you've never experienced this, it's not a guarranteed problem and perhaps I did something wrong. Never had that problem on my SM1 though (but had it twice on a Ghost).
QuoteWhen flown properly, with only mild tension on the grippers, it shouldnt give you any deflation or drop..
Your comment about the grippers (over using them to tension the wing) is most likely the reason I experienced the loss in fall rate.
QuoteI would ad the Con that the legwing can be especialy hard to shut down at pulltime.
I was anticipating this due to previous comments you've made on this forum, yet I experienced the exact opposite. The leg wing always collapsed span-wise without any resistance.
QuoteI would dare say that the Blade is one of the best suits out there when it comes to wing pressurisation.
I was also expecting the Blade to feel "like inflatable beds stuck between my arms and legs" but never got that feeling. This isn't a criticism of the suit, just an observation. Perhaps my body position wasn't correct (though if this is the case, the suit deserves extra credit for performing so well while flown incorrectly) and the suit's inflation was somehow hampered.
Have you flown a Super Mach 1 (or any of Tony's suits with the new airlocks/inlets)? After flying a SM1, I expected all suits with airlocks to feel similar (almost-impossible-to-collapse wings), yet neither the Ghost or the Blade felt anything like it (inflation wise) and I found it easy to collapse the wings on both suits.
Again, I'd recommend a Blade to anyone. It's a great suit. Just reporting my observations from my limited experience with each suit.
Brian Drake
we always here about the blade sm1 and ghost, but what about the frenchies suits? i know some people tried them at f&d 3.5, i didn't try one, but i'm intrested to know what people thought about the flights they had in them. anyone, anyone?
i would if i could but i can't so i won't. or i might.
I was really impressed with the S-Fly suits.
Good design, good material, fun to fly, good range.
Flying it dirty was much different than flying any tri-wing design that I have flown. Simply arch more while still keeping the suit stretched out to do so.
Good design, good material, fun to fly, good range.
Flying it dirty was much different than flying any tri-wing design that I have flown. Simply arch more while still keeping the suit stretched out to do so.
WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray
Buried 0
Quotewe always here about the blade sm1 and ghost, but what about the frenchies suits? i know some people tried them at f&d 3.5, i didn't try one, but i'm intrested to know what people thought about the flights they had in them. anyone, anyone?
search "s-fly" or sfly in this forum.
Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?
mccordia 74
Its been very quiet concerning the SFly Pro.
Maybe our in-house expert 'Le pat' could give us some more info on that one, since he's been flying it for a while now?
Maybe our in-house expert 'Le pat' could give us some more info on that one, since he's been flying it for a while now?
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
Gadget 0
Guess what he is buying
If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
My logbook
My logbook
Zeemax 0
An inflatable girlfriend?
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies
Gadget 0
Well it takes an englishman to come up with that guess 
If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
My logbook
My logbook
birdynamnam 28
Have the Profly myself. It's fun. If it is about going for speed or range the Profly will be my weapon of choice. I talked to Le Pat about the characteristics of the suit and we agree that its a bit of a "wild horse". A strange feeling to fly that fast even though you are just spreading arms and legs and not pushing for speed at all. So in the beginning you really don't look to find the max performance sweetspot, instead you just hurl along wondering "does it have brakes this thing?"
Nope, you didn't lose anything, and neither did this forum.....
Be safe
Ed
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
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