Definition of a complete wingsuit formation: "Everyone in their pre-determined slot, within two body lengths of the correct position and held for 4 seconds"

[unclecharlie95 3]

Not many people replied to the original thread, so I have slightly changed the original definition (from Jari, including the suggestion of Jarno) and put it to the vote.

What do you think? Shall we try this definition out this season?

BASEstore.it

[mccordia 74]

Does it count as a wingsuit jump if its flown at less then a 2.3 glideratio?

And more serious..I think this definition will mostly be important in showing people outside of the dicipline what we can do...

Cant wait to see what 2007 has in store for us!

ps.
jailbreak?
DUDE!! You Soooo need to start watching heroes...it totaly OWNS jailbreak!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[phoenixlpr 0]

I disagree.

I don't think that pre-determined slot is so important.

[unclecharlie95 3]

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I don't think that pre-determined slot is so important.

Pre. det. slots shows a level of technical difficulty that non wingsuiters will understand. For normal fun flocking, sure, screw slots - but for a big way attempt i think it is the way to go..

BASEstore.it

[phoenixlpr 0]

I would call as ac-hoc or slotted formation regarding it was pre-determined or not.

[Peej 0]

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I don't think that pre-determined slot is so important.

Pre. det. slots shows a level of technical difficulty that non wingsuiters will understand. For normal fun flocking, sure, screw slots - but for a big way attempt i think it is the way to go..

Agreed, what would have happened if someone on the 400 way FS record had got to the formation and gone, aw shucks, my slots all the way over there, i'll think i'll just dock here...

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[mccordia 74]

I also think slotted formations will make cleaner exits and building of formations posisble.
As poeple can now start flying for a slot straight from exit, instead of everyone diving for the base, and then zooming all over the place, trying to find a nice slot..

Side subject: Congrats on the longest subject line ever in the wingsuit forum

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Sirob 0]

Given rule is simply not sufficient.

First question is where is the point from we measure "two body lengths".
Is it relative to the next flying person or center point of the whole formation.

In 5 minutes I made two drawings (see attached PDF), on the left you can see desired formation and on the right the one you can have by implementing "two body lengths" rule in mine interpretation (choose next flyer as you like).
Flyers are moved only on one axis (but I think we should allow two (or three?) axes).
Flyers can move back and forth from the desired slot.

Does second formation looks like the desired one?
Not to me...

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Agreed, what would have happened if someone on the 400 way FS record had got to the formation and gone, aw shucks, my slots all the way over there, i'll think i'll just dock here...

You know apples to apples....

Speed star to ad-hocs and slotted to slotted should be compared.

I'd like to see how big V or ^ can be built ad-hoc way.

[mccordia 74]

Sirob...within two bodylengths of the CORRECT POSITION..
In your examples, many flyers are not where they are supposed to be...

Everyone should be within two bodylengths of EVERY person they are supposed to be flying next to...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[piisfish 140]

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Given rule is simply not sufficient.

First question is where is the point from we measure "two body lengths".
Is it relative to the next flying person or center point of the whole formation.

and you assumed everyone had the same body length

If you do a formation with short people it will be tighter

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[unclecharlie95 3]

My idea was "two body lengths from their ideal position in the formation", but you're right this needs clarifying!

BASEstore.it

[Sirob 0]

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Everyone should be within two bodylengths of EVERY person they are supposed to be flying next to...

That is the point - next to which one?
The one in front? Or back? Or left? Or right?

Given example was made by random meaning of "next".

[unclecharlie95 3]

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If you do a formation with short people it will be tighter

Keep them coming! These are all valid points!

Nobody shorter than 6' and taller than 6'1" can take part in a wingsuit formation!

BASEstore.it

[jakee 1,595]

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Everyone should be within two bodylengths of EVERY person they are supposed to be flying next to...

That is the point - next to which one?
The one in front? Or back? Or left? Or right?

Given example was made by random meaning of "next".

So make it "Within 2 body lengths x meters of the correct position with reference to the base of the formation"?

To me that wording would be sufficient to prevent anyone thinking that the tolerances can build up on each other. (Specify an actual distance instead of body length?)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Tonto 1]

So what's a body length?

I know wingsuit pilots that are 40 cm different in height. (1.5m to 1.9m. So 2 bodylengths is a variable of 0.8m - and that's between row 1 and 2..

If you're going to fly tight - it must be tight. Aiming for anything more than 1m is by definition plan B - and plan B is by definition a failure.

Sure, this may mean that what we now call a successful big way is actually a zoo - but until we realise that, or standards will always be too low.

Just some random thoughts. Personally I voted for 3. It's more about the flying for me than anything else.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Airowpoint 0]

I would say something like this: "Everyone in their pre-determined slot, with all flyers having the same distances to their neighbours and held for 3.14159265 seconds" This way you can be 10m apart or docked, the shape of the formation would be the same. (Although some formations might be thought of with variable distances between each other.)

Tristan
Will you answer "NO" to my next question?

[DaMan 0]

Another point we need to consider is that we are flying more formations in 3-D...

If the built formation was to be vertical, what amount of "off axis" do we still determine as in their slot - I mean, you could have all the flyers be all within the body length of their predetermined slots, but the whole formation could be slanted off axis - that doesn't require near the skill to pull off that kind of slop...

If you're talking about world class, the flying skills and requirements need to match up.

Z-Flock 8
Discotec Rodriguez

Too bad weapons grade stupidity doesn't lead to sterility.

[pierre3636 0]

determined slot in my experience - helps with exit, approach and least amount of burble being eaten

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Buried 0]

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I don't think that pre-determined slot is so important.

agreed, but i think it really depends. if it is for a record or something, determined slots would def help. I think it is better to say "jumpers within an area" or something like that. If someone doesn't make their slot, you have the choice of filling it (moving up or over) or leaving it open. Since we are not all jumping the same color suits, filling it doesn't make it difficult who should have been where and proves for better pictures . Leaving it open in certain 3d formations is a bit harder to do. We've done things both ways, can't say either is better IMO... at least as 2 people dont go for an open slot at the same time. maybe setup something that says "outside point person fills fwd".

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also think slotted formations will make cleaner exits and building of formations posisble.

it helps for the base and formations smaller than say 16, but once you add more people it's more important to get the base set and have people in their general area and side for the exit order.

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Nobody shorter than 6' and taller than 6'1" can take part in a wingsuit formation!

sucks, i'm out. maybe i'll take up FF now. suits for sale! What is Robi, jari and Jussi going to do now too?

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So make it "Within 2 body lengths x meters feet of the correct position with reference to the base of the formation"?

fixed it. like people know what a meter is.



-what about formation wavey-ness?
-Todd is right, 3d formations is something else to consider too.
-After 4 seconds can we play 'take out the base'?

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[bodypilot1 0]

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Agreed, what would have happened if someone on the 400 way FS record had got to the formation and gone, aw shucks, my slots all the way over there, i'll think i'll just dock here...

On the 400way, the fomation was designed to have small alley ways in between each whacker/sector. Should something happen to you on exit from the C130 or you get taken out during your approach to the formation, we could fly up this opening and still dock in our line. Completion of your line was essential for the record, but not your exact slot in your line.
No, we could not dock anywhere we wanted on the formation if we got lost looking at the other 410 people in the air with us.......



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[leroydb 0]

People on the same level should have hand docks...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Tight to me is flying within one meter. Very tight to me is flying within one foot when flying on the horizontal plane. Being slot perfect is essential on technical flocks, but not so much on the larger "general shape" formations when people simply can't get to their slot and the next guy in line fills the gap. Many, many of us routinely do 3D flocking now, so we must also consider the vertical proximity and correct angles up from the nearest person. That and relativity to the person who is our mirror on the other side of the formation.

Flying loose formations is not difficult, but very-tight technical flocks require intense concentration, less you wash into your wingman or fall off into a burble. I love that kind of wingsuiting.

Chuck

[The111 1]

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very-tight technical flocks require intense concentration, less you wash into your wingman or fall off into a burble. I love that kind of wingsuiting.

I like to fly next to Scott Bland and read his Neptune.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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very-tight technical flocks require intense concentration, less you wash into your wingman or fall off into a burble. I love that kind of wingsuiting.

I like to fly next to Scott Bland and read his Neptune.

Me too, Matt! That's a perfect example (though I wish Scott would speed it up a bit).