New Suit?

[plutoniumsalmon 0]

Hello
I am new to the flock and have about 5 jumps on a GTI that belongs to a friend. I need to buy my own suit and therefore would like some advice on what I should buy. I did talk to the bird people at the dropzone and they all recommend different things that range from a firebird R to a Vampire. Seeing that I plan to fly every week and that the delivery time for a new wingsuit is about 13 weeks, I am begining to think that the Vampire or it's equivalent is not as crazy as it sounds. As by the time it comes in the mail I would have 40-60 on a GTI and would still be able to fly it until I really feel comfortable in a wing suit.
My question to you then is two fold.
1. Is it rational to buy a something like a Vampire as a first wingsuit purchase. Keeping in mind of course the scenario described above and that I am not entirely made of money.
2 What other suits like the Vampire are out there and what are the differences between them. S6? Vampire? FlyYour body (dont even know if its in the same category) Matter? so on and so fourth.

Anyways thanks for the help
ps I did the search thing but did not really find the answers I am looking for as namely everyone says the suits are great but no one gives much specifics or comparisons.
pps I did talk and still do talk to my instructor (he is pro firebird r). And I will bother Andy West when he gets back from Europe (he recommended the vampire by the way). I just want the opinion from the peanut gallery
ppps And for those interested in flaming this post or coming up with some comment that I am retarded or something (I know that already) perhaps you should ask yourself these questions. Is my life really that shitty that I have to spend five minutes of it typing some insult in response to a legitimate question in a forum on the world wide web just to feel better about myself? Or maybe I should just sit back a little, chill, and think 'you know this ain't that bad'?

Pointy birds
Oh pointy pointy
Anoint my head
Anointy nointy

[phoenixlpr 0]

How about updateing your profile first?

You should not use wingsuit with your number of jumps by USPA SIM.

For first suit get something with smaller wings: Classic*, GTi, Firebird, Acro, Phantom.

[voodew1 0]

If by the time the wingsuit arrives you would have 60 to 80 flights on a GTI it really doesn't matter what suit you get --- you will have to 'relearn' how to fly a bigger suit but the learning curve will be fast.

Before I recommend a suit I think you should ask Zach (buried on here) as he owns a Firebird and he flew my Vampire all last weekend.

Maybe pm him and ask his opinion --- he is pretty unbiased as he is not an instructor for any manufacture and he has a decent amount of wingsuit flights on a few different suits.
I really don't even know what he would say as to which suit to recommend.

Beware though he is a flaming queer

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Costyn 1]

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If by the time the wingsuit arrives you would have 60 to 80 flights on a GTI it really doesn't matter what suit you get --- you will have to 'relearn' how to fly a bigger suit but the learning curve will be fast.

I concur. You should be able to handle any big suit if you have that many jumps on the GTI. Yes, it'll probably fly you a couple times in the beginning, and frustratingly you'll be getting faster freefall speeds than you were in the GTI, but you'll learn to fly it. So, depending on what you wanna do, you can go for several options:

* all round & flocking: PF Phantom, Firebird (R), Vampire, S6, S-Fly Expert
* performance: Vampire, S6, S-Fly Expert
* acrobatics: Acro, Firebird, Phantom, S-Fly Expert, S6

These are not designated categories by any means, but merely an indication of what they were somewhat designed for. I know a guy in an S-Fly that can outfly many a pilot in a Vampire, for example. And you can do acrobatics in a Vampire, it's just that the Acro is a suit specifically designed for acrobatics.

edit: o yeah, considering that Loic flies an S-Fly and won the Russian Wingsuit competition with it, I guess we can put it in as performance suit too.

Cheers,

Costyn.

Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

[VectorBoy 0]

I am begining to think that the Vampire or it's equivalent is not as crazy as it sounds. My question to you then is two fold.
1. Is it rational to buy a something like a Vampire as a first wingsuit purchase.

[mccordia 74]

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The S-6, on the other hand, has modifications that some who have flown it consider to be counter productive to glide and not really enhancements,

Seeing as the S-6 and S3-S are the same suit, (aside from a few material/construction improvements) thats a damn funny statement..

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The argument that Vampires aren't for flocking will vaporize very soon

Cool...it'd be nice to finaly see one in a formation instead of beneath it

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I can promise you that the S6 is not a step "back" from the S3. I would just sell mine and continue to jump my Vampire if that were the case. I have really grown to love my S6 though.

Chuck

[Professor 0]

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ppps And for those interested in flaming this post or coming up with some comment that I am retarded or something (I know that already) perhaps you should ask yourself these questions. Is my life really that shitty that I have to spend five minutes of it typing some insult in response to a legitimate question in a forum on the world wide web just to feel better about myself? Or maybe I should just sit back a little, chill, and think 'you know this ain't that bad'?

HOLY SHIT DO YOU REALLY ONLY HAVE 178 JUMPS!!??!1! OH FUCK IM FREAKIN OUT!!!! YOUR GOING TO DIE FOR SHURE!!11!!1ONE!11! YOU MUST GET 22 MORE JUMPS RIGHT NOW OR FACE CERTAIN GRISLEY DEATH.

OK, that said, get a Phantom with back vents, or an Acro. Those suits are the best combination of performance/price/usability/range of any suit out there. Your profile indicates that you're almost as fat as me, so I'd lean toward an acro, since they're slower in both directions, but it's up to you.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[VectorBoy 0]

Seeing as the S-6 and S3-S are the same suit, (aside from a few material/construction improvements) thats a damn funny statement..

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Well I've only seen one S3s, Eddy P's. Which I believe he has had for at least a year plus, which looks much improved over my production S3. And one fairly new S-6. And they are different beyond materials/ construction. Maybe Ed's 3-s was not the finalized design but transitional like my s-3 prototype that Costyn said was hard to fly. It would help if BM could define some exact specs for us until then I'll go with what I've seen.

Cool...it'd be nice to finaly see one in a formation instead of beneath it

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Matt has a gigga hard drive full of pictures of vampires in the formation.They are sweet you should check them out. I've got hours of video of vampires in and around the formation.

But to be honest my reply was to the original poster who resides in an area that will soon be pretty heavy with Vampires. If he desides to travel to local boogies that is what he will see. This is the new trend in the three away boogies that I have been to and our home dropzones. Usually not a problem for other suits and I don't typically have a shortage of range in my S-3 and didn't at the boogies earlier this year , but at the last boogie the flying was more challenging and faster by a large margin, PF suits were the majority suit. Flyers skills were up as well. Flockers left their other brand suits in the bag and got on some Vampire demos for the duration ( and hung on to them ) because flying was flatter and faster overall.

We have all seen vampire owners from smaller dropzones who don't get to flock much have a hard time staying up and any where relative with the flock. I've heard the smug comments from all kinds of people claiming to have smoked them in their other suits. But I must say when you take experienced flockers who have put the time in to learn their suits all predominantly in Vampires streaking up and away from a handful of stragglers in other suits......... it makes you think........ where do you want to be in the flock?

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[birdynamnam 28]

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The new trend in flocking seems to be actually flying at higher speeds ( imagine that ) than we have seen here in years past. I find myself working harder and harder just to keep up. The talent out there keeps getting better.

Yes faster flocks are much more fun. The flocks in Stupino lead by Loic were pretty fast. Btw he also flies a suit thats way faster than Vampires and even Skyflyers and what else.

Go fast, in the suit you like. And why flock with heels to ass?

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The S-3 has been around a long time. The S-3-s offers some improvements and slight increase in performance.

No! We have discussed that in another thread recently. S3S is very different not one piece is identical, and there is a huge difference between S3 and S3S in the air performance wise.

[birdynamnam 28]

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Maybe Ed's 3-s was not the finalized design but transitional like my s-3 prototype that Costyn said was hard to fly. It would help if BM could define some exact specs for us until then I'll go with what I've seen.

[VectorBoy 0]

Yes faster flocks are much more fun. The flocks in Stupino lead by Loic were pretty fast. Btw he also flies a suit thats way faster than Vampires and even Skyflyers and what else.

[birdynamnam 28]

Okay... I was playing a joke there

[VectorBoy 0]

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Okay... I was playing a joke there

No harm Birdy, and I love humor too. But it also happens to be true it is also a perfect and beautiful example. Events like stupino and germany feature an international blend of participants and suits from every represented manufacturer and they were accommodating a large group with varying experience.

Even typical smallish wingsuit boogies try to provide something for everybody. Maybe a little skills building. Organizers can build formations based the participants skills/experience and range.

But there will come a time when the organizer will not have to work so hard at skills building. I see the talent out there getting better all of the time.

[mccordia 74]

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But there will come a time when the organizer will not have to work so hard at skills building. I see the talent out there getting better all of the time.

All joking aside...if you look how far the flying has come in just 2 or 3 years..

bigway/flocking events used to focus on learning people to fly in formations...but now, more and more, we focus on the actual formations, as people are flying/practicing..a lot!

the typical 'feet on your ass' flocking we're still seeing is just the 'problem' of the flock usualy adjusting to the least skilled flyer (fastest faller)...but as the skills level increases...flocks will start to fly more and more...

What I'd hope to see in the future is some kind of invitational bigway event..organised like RW/FF bigways....selecting people based on their flying skills..and doing slotperfect jumps..big ones....fast ones....long ones...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[JohanW 0]

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What I'd hope to see in the future is some kind of invitational bigway event..organised like RW/FF bigways....selecting people based on their flying skills..and doing slotperfect jumps..big ones....fast ones....long ones...

I think we were doing nicely in Cochstedt 2006, and 2007 might be even better

Johan.
I am. I think.

[mccordia 74]

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I think we were doing nicely in Cochstedt 2006, and 2007 might be even better

I know it was all flying nicely...and a bunch of the most incredible jumps I've ever made...
But imagine the tight formations that could be built, if you would take the 15 to 20 best flyers that where at the boogie, and focussed on flying tight formations with just those people.

No stray birds all over the sky in the back...

I know a lot of people are against this..not wanting to exclude people from jumps...but the bigger and more challenging these jumps get...the less 10 to 20 flight 'wonders' should be in the middle of that...?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[JohanW 0]

I see no shame in organizing invitational jumps, excluding people from some jumps. As long as I can be on 'em, of course

Not to the exclusion of the flocks like this year's, but hey, you didn't take any stray 10 flight wonders on the Top Gun jump on Sunday, did you?

I did some checking BTW; the larger flocks in Cochstedt were between 60 and 70 mph sustained downward speed. Forward speed, from memory, was good for those jumps (have to get me a GPS one of these days). So there is some room for even higher performance formation flying, but with 20 people in the formation, you desperately need some maneuvering margin; you couldn't get much better glide without people not even making it up to the base, into the formation. You'll be hard pressed to find 20 flyers with the skills to fly 50 mph down, 100 mph forward, docked. Very hard

Patrick and Adrian might have such a flock going on somewhere .. sigh ..

Johan.
I am. I think.