Life of a wing suit and likely hood of accident/fatality in base with suit

[Thorno 0]

How long do wingsuits last before you have to buy a new one or have it checked by the company in particular phoenix-fly suits. Also is it more or less likely to have an accident whilst base jumping with a wing suit as opposed to regular base jumping (no wing suit).
Thanks,
-RB

[leroydb 0]

some people have put hundreds of jumps on their suit(s).

dont think you need to have it checked unless you need them to repair it.

there is no such thing as "regular base jumping " But to answer your question... Just like anything else, it is an added risk.

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Thorno 0]

Thanks for the quick reply :->

How would they be an added risk, I would have thought that since they take you further away from the object from which you jump they would be safer...but then again you are the more experienced sky diver so,....

[leroydb 0]

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Thanks for the quick reply :->

How would they be an added risk, I would have thought that since they take you further away from the object from which you jump they would be safer...but then again you are the more experienced sky diver so,....

It is an added risk in that you have ALOT more to be concerned about. Exit, flight plan, overal Stability, Stability while deploying, dealing with malfunctions such as line twists (your arms are restricted initially until you unzip your wings or cut them away), Did you open to low? what abotu your landing area?

not to go on and on, but that list is not a complete list, just my own thoughts on WS BASE. Though it is a future endevor of mine, I have yet to do a WS BASE, so take the above with a grain of salt.

I can say that all I said can be applied to WS skydiving

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[TomAiello 26]

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I would have thought that since they take you further away from the object from which you jump they would be safer...

We all thought that, at the beginning.

As of right now, since the onset of the "wingsuit era" in BASE, exactly one third of BASE fatalities have involved a wingsuit. See The List for details, but of 24 BASE fatalities since the first wingsuit BASE death (# 68), we have had 8 wingsuit fatalities (numbers 68, 69, 70, 76, 81, 82, 83 and 88) and 16 non-wingsuit fatalities (numbers 71. 72, 73, 74, 75, 77, 78, 79, 80, 84, 85, 86, 87, 89, 90 and 91).

I will not make any real speculation as to the underlying wingsuit/non-wingsuit jump ratios, but I will say that I believe that they are much less than the 1:2 ratio of deaths, meaning that I think statistically you are far more likely to die jumping from an object today with a wingsuit on than without one.

What it looks like is that we have managed to trade a well known danger (object strike) for a whole host of less known ones (equipment complexity, additional malfunction possibilities, stability problems, throwing off our visual pull reflexes, etc). And to make it worse, we've thrown object strike right back into the mix, by making an increasing number of flights that are impossible without the wingsuit--in other words we are opening just as close to the walls, because we are just flying more and more underhung objects. In fact, if you look at a couple of incidents, you can see that people have impacted objects that they did not jump from, and that the wingsuit may have had a role to play in getting them close enough to hit it. Further, we have a couple of freefall object strike fatalities that are the clear result of a wingsuit-equipped jumper trying to outfly a ledge or other obstacle in a manner they never would have attempted without the suit.

Apparently, what we've done is classic "risk shifting", where we have found a new set of risks to stand in for the one we thought we got rid of, but as a bonus, we haven't really even gotten rid of that one risk.

Bottom line: Wingsuit BASE is statistically much more dangerous than non-wingsuit BASE at this moment in time.

A piece of advice: If you are thinking of getting into wingsuit BASE, become very proficient at both BASE and wingsuit flight before combining the two, and definitely read James Boole's excellent article Starting Wingsuit BASE which is available for download from the Phoenix Fly Web Site.

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...How would they be an added risk...

The additional risks largely stem from 2 things:

1) Added complexity: We have some added handles, some extra fabric in freefall, a bit more difficulty making a stable launch, an extra step before getting control of the canopy post-opening...the list goes on.

2) Changed perceptions: Our perceptions about the jump change. We change how we approach and evaluate the jump, thinking that the wingsuit somehow makes it "safer" (when it actually makes it more dangerous, statistically). Also, and importantly, it changes the visual perception of ground rush at pull time. The relatively slow downward speed of the wingsuit can greatly reduce the ground rush (and associated perception of lowness) at low altitude. This can fool people into pitching too late.


Hope that helps.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

I've cleaned up this thread.

All, please remember that this is a topical forum. If you want to bicker, I'd appreciate you doing it somewhere else.

Thanks!

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TVPB 0]

If you add complexity you increase risk. Especially where all the decision making is still left to the human involved in the event in question.

Your wingsuit question is like asking how long is a piece of string?

Risk is a relative term and is dependant on a myriad of factors which may be radically different for different people, objects, and gear configurations.

i.e. An inexperienced person jumping an underhung object with a wingsuit and no common sense is at much greater risk than an experienced conservative person jumping an overhung object without one.

Then there are all the shades in between. If you take the second person and put him off an object where the slope is equal to the absolute best glide ratio of wing suit flight, and compare that with the first person who just skydives with the wingsuit, guess who is more likely to bite the dust?

Once you are further away from a wall, you have reduced the risk associated with several aspects of your jump (object strikes in particular), but you have to get there first. IF you don't know how to fly a wingsuit properly EVERY time, then many BASE jumps actually become more dangerous.

Best bet is to learn each of the skills separately. Learn the BASE jumping fundamentals first, learn how to fly wingsuits from an airplane, and when you have developed consistancy and skill in both, go try a BASE wingsuit flight whilst still under the tuition of an expert. I would strongly suggest a subterminal exit or two with the wingsuit before venturing into BASE...

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[pbla4024 0]

I put a hundred jumps on S3 and it is like new.

Fido

[mccordia 74]

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I put a hundred jumps on S3 and it is like new.

Same here, also roughly 100 jumps on the suit..only damage so far was a tiny tear in the legwing (due to flapping while backflying)

But in terms of fabric and zippers etc. it still looked the same at 100 jumps as it did on the 1st one.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[The111 1]

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only damage so far was a tiny tear in the legwing (due to flapping while backflying)

Hmm, I've been doing a lot of backflying and flapping (backflapping?), maybe I need to keep an eye on my legwing from time to time. Where exactly did the tear occur?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mccordia 74]

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only damage so far was a tiny tear in the legwing (due to flapping while backflying)

Hmm, I've been doing a lot of backflying and flapping (backflapping?), maybe I need to keep an eye on my legwing from time to time. Where exactly did the tear occur?

It was only a 1 cm tear that occured where the wing is attached to the leg. There is a small piece of re-inforcement/binding-tape there that attaches the legwing to the leg.
The small tear happened exacly on the stitches of the binding tape.

I've been keeping an eye on my s3s, but it seems to have way less issues with flapping due to the mylar inforcement ribs..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Birdman_Mike 0]

RB,

I put about 450 jumps on my Skyflyer S3 and had to replace the right arm zipper twice and the right leg zipper twice. The second set of zippers works great. I'm not sure of the brand, but the teeth are on the inside. I had it done by Shirley at Skydive Elsinore, CA. I've put about 160 jumps on my Vampire V1 without any zipper replacements yet.

Mike