Student canopies....

[JeffD 0]

Alright well I'm a big guy (250lbs) and flying navigator and PD 280s so I'm loading it at just about 1-1. So far both my jumps have landed me on my butt because the canopy just wont plane out. I just go in at like a 20-30degree angle, feet hit and slide right down to my butt and stop. I am flaring as much as I can(arms down to my waist), but remembered that student canopies have longer steering lines to prevent students from stalling too much. I heard one of the experienced jumpers saying you could wrap the steering lines around your hands to "shorten" the steering lines and give you a stronger flare. I just cant get enough flare. Should I wrap them a few times? to see if it will help. Thanks.

[sundevil777 102]

Are you flaring as much as you can all in one motion?

Can you get the canopy to stall without taking a wrap?

If you can get it to stall, then wraps are not needed. Flare down to a point where the canopy starts to flatten out (1/2 ot 2/3), then use the last bit of the stroke at the end to stay level and slow your horizontal speed.

There is a tendency by new jumpers to just yank down as hard and fast as possible. Watch how those who land well do it, they start higher and do it smoothly.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Jib 0]

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So far both my jumps have landed me on my butt ...

BOTH jumps? Talk to your instructors (who have seen you land) and give it some time.

As far as taking wraps to land, DON"T do it! If you think the lines are too long, talk to a rigger about it. Let him decide if they need to be 1" shorter (not wrapS of 8+" each). Don't take it into your own hands, literally.

When your instructors give you the okay and explain what to expect, how to react and tell you what could happen, only then should you take wraps to see what happens and let them go by 2000' AGL or higher in case there's a problem.

Blues

jib

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[jerry81 10]

Hey,
first of all; if I understood correctly, you have two jumps, so there's still room for improvement. Student canopies really have longer steering lines, so wrapping them around your hands once or twice can be quite useful on low/no-wind days. BUT you should, as with any new canopy maneuver, try it first at a safe altitude. By wrapping the lines too much you can stall the canopy when you try to flare it, which can hurt if done too close to the ground. One thing I would advise to do is look up to see what the canopy is doing while you pull the brakes. Another is to close your eyes and flare (high up, of course) to feel what happens- was descent slowed, did you plane out or even swing slightly upwards? Once again, with two jumps, there's a lot of things that will soon simply come to you without even trying very hard.

Most important, if any experienced (or "experienced") jumper gives you an advice, talk to your instructor about it. Some things may require skills you don't posses yet.

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[skybytch 273]

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I am flaring as much as I can(arms down to my waist)

Try flaring to your crotch instead of your waist. If you can't do it due to toggle pressure, start working on building your upper body strength.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Something else to think about is that the lines on a PD-280 are long. When you flare, the canopy slows down and your momentum causes you to swing out in front of the canopy. The longer lines of the PD-280 and the weight of the reserve canopy still packed on your back exasperate this. When you actually touch the ground, you have to have your weight over your feet, or you will fall backwards as if someone pulled a chair out from under you. To prevent this, on short final, lean forward against the chest strap in the harness. The more, the better. That way when you flare and are swung forward, your weight will still be over your feet. This sets you up for a better position to either stand up the landing or PLR (Parachute Landing Roll) from.

Bottom line is to discuss this with your Instructor(s) you are experienced and have actually seen you land. I would not recommend taking a wrap on the steering lines. This also demonstrates that you should not take advice from "experienced jumpers" other than your Instructors. They mean well, but often cause more harm than good.

Derek

[JeffD 0]

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...momentum causes you to swing out in front of the canopy.

thats just it I just come straight into the ground with no swing, no plane, (see picture) This is what it feels like, and looks like (my perspective).

[Hooknswoop 19]

It is possible that the PD-280 you have been jumping is worn out and doesn't produce much lift for the flare anymore. F-111 canopies stop producing lift for the flare after 300-400 jumps.

If that is the case, another, newer, canopy or another DZ if a newer canopy is not available is the only solution.

Derek

[sundevil777 102]

I agree with skybytch that you should be able to flare past your waist.

Again, answer these two questions:

Are you flaring as much as you can all in one (fast) motion?

Can you get the canopy to stall without taking a wrap?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JeffD 0]

1. no I was taught to go from full flight, to shoulders, to chest, to waist. Flare,Flare,Flare.
2. no I haven't tried to stall it up high, just testing the flare which feels weak up high.

I'll talk to my instructors and see, and try the wrap up high and see if it helps. (not on landing) Thanks for the help.

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[phoenixlpr 0]

So which one? navigator and PD 280? It does matter? Nav is ZP topskin and more flare power than PD 280(F111). Dont expect PD280 to plan you out. Landing a ZP and an F111 is a different thing. If I were you I would stick to Nav. PD 280 is not a student canopy and you shouldve have .8 or less if you want student performance from an F111 canopy.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I dont know if this is just the way you've drawn it or if it really is the way it happens. New jumpers can often percieve something very differently to what actually is happening... its all about info overload.

If you look at your two drawings the line of decent starts to change in angle a little lower on the one on the right when compaired to the one on the left. It looks like the if the ground was not there on the one on the right, the line would continue on and look like the one on the left.

As I say, perhaps this is just how you've drawn it, but perhaps it really is an accurate representation of whats happening. If it were me... and my decent looked like the one on the right... i'd flare a little earlier, allowing the canopy to plane out. That is perhaps all it is, and its very common for students to do that, esp with radio commands. (delay between hearing and doing).

If you are still on radio guided landings... still wait for your instructor, or better yet, talk to him about the landings. I say still wait for the instructor cos even if his landing biffs you in... you are not yet exp enough to judge the right flare hight, and your landing might not biff you in, it might femour you.

Look at the two pics again, take the ground lower on the one on the right and it might just plane out to look like the one on the left.

Also... student canopies fly and especially land like shit... i almost always biffed as a student in and I know now it was not just me, it had a lot to do with the canopy. (ok so neither of us could land for shit, but if either one could, the landings would have been a lot better).