phi

[usmc0844 0]

I just got my black Phi, I am having a little confusion with a few things. I thought the wing-cutaways were going to be velcro less.....and there are no snaps to hold the legs when I am under canopy. There are not any thumb loops for the arm wings and where is the excess leg cut-away cable supposed to go...

[The111 1]

Perhaps you should contact Bird-man.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[usmc0844 0]

I am, but i was hoping that I was just over looking something and maybe someone already has a solution

[The111 1]

Sorry, I've only seen one Phi and it was slightly pre-production I think, and I don't know how many here are familiar with the suit yet either, as it is so new. Hopefully it is an easy solution and BM or someone else will be able to help you out.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[MarkM 0]

Got mine today too, though I need to send it back for a larger size, it's a little too tight.

I was curious about how to stow your legs for walking and what-not too. No snaps, but the top of the booties has a loop attached to them. Not sure what that's supposed to connect too though

[usmc0844 0]

I think the loop on the booties is to give you something to pull the legs up when you are under canopy

[Tonto 1]

I just recieved mine, and I've not yet seen it, but from Taz's description, your suit is perfectly normal. Wing cutaways use velcro. Personally, I'm quite pleased about that.

What I intend to do this weekend is..

1. Hold the wingtip gripper when I zip out of the wings.
2. Unzip the suit and push the booties into the thigh for landing. (Still do this on my Classic 1 and have always used the vent hole on my S3 rather than the tabs)
3. Push the L.Q.R.S cable into the bootie.

There are a couple of differences from this pic too - most noticable is the pic has what looks like a rear wing deflector while ours do not.

After the weekend's jumping, I'll sew loops onto the arms and put a snap through the toe tab to hook up to the leg for landing. Nothing that can't be sorted in 10 min, if it even needs sorting at all. Can't wait to see how it flies!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

My new Firebird has no snaps for the booties either. Apparently the new way of thinking at BM headquarters is "the leg wing will trail between your legs and will not get in way during landing". That's from the latest BMI manual.

Personally, I want my snaps back. Landing might work fine, but what about walking back from the landing area? Walking to the plane? My current solution is to open one of the front zippers and stuff the booties inside the suit. I'll install a couple of snaps as soon as I get access to the tools needed.

I have no ideas for the missing thumb loops or the LQRS cable, sorry.

[Taz 0]

I'm looking at Tonto's Phi right now and there are no thumb loops, no special place to store excess cable from the LQRS, no snaps, and definitely no rear wing deflector. As others have pointed out, snaps etc. can be fixed by riggers in very little time.

Overall though, the build quality looks great. The material is very cool and I like the breathable section on the back where the rig will sit.

Pics attached.

It's the Year of the Dragon.

[mccordia 74]

I think the decicion to leave the leg-snaps from newer suits probably came from the feedback on those snaps with all GTi's/S3's.
It might just be us clumsy dutch folks, but I've seen quite a few suits with the snaps torn of.

With the S3 I always put the legwing through the vent-hole between the legs, but with the Phi (no hole) and the S3S (rigid wings that are to stiff to put it through the hole, or hook it up onto snaps) that's not an option.

the LQRS has velcro, since it never has to come of, but the arm-wings have the new toggle system right?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Taz 0]

Quote

the LQRS has velcro, since it never has to come of, but the arm-wings have the new toggle system right?

The Phi arm wings are connected the same way the GTi and S3 are, it appears. There is velcro on the loops at the bottom of the cutaway cables that attaches to velcro on the suit. -T

It's the Year of the Dragon.

[Bowie 0]

Got mine too yesterday and i am told it is a Chick magnet. It looks very cool and the quality looks very fine too.
I think the velcro less cut system didn't work as planned so they attached velcro to solve that problem. it is much faster to put the excess lqrs cable int the booty as mentioned before. as for the loop for the arm zipper i tried to unzip a few times and holding the grippers works fine. try it before you mod your suit.

Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

[Taz 0]

With no thumb loops: after pitching, you have to add the step of taking hold of your grippers again rather than just starting to unzip. I wonder if this will be distracting/annoying under canopy, or time consuming if that's a factor, ie after a mal. All you Phi owners, let us know after jumping them.

-T

It's the Year of the Dragon.

[Bowie 0]

If i was to use it for BASE yes it is a problem.
But hanging in 2000 ft or higher i cant see the problem Yet. But i will try it out this weekend;o)

Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

[Tonto 1]

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i cant see the problem Yet.

Others are pointing out the problem. You need to release the wingtip gripper to pull. Now you (may) need to find it again to unzip. If I have a cutaway - I'll need to open my hands to get the gripper - and there go my handles. After 18 cutaways I've only ever dropped one handle - and that was to succesfully deal with a reserve malfunction - so I'll be sewing a couple of loops onto my PHI. It'll take less than 5 min, cost less than $5 and provide me with familiarity and peace of mind on my next several 100 wingsuit dives.

But that's just me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[voodew1 0]

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It'll take less than 5 min, cost less than $5 and provide me with familiarity and peace of mind on my next several 100 wingsuit dives.

If it cost so little and and is so easy to do why not do it at the factory --- Ahh well at least people are finally getting the suits weather or not they are getting what they paid for stands to be seen

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Buried 0]

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most noticable is the pic has what looks like a rear wing deflector while ours do not.

To my knowledge there was no delfector on the phi. That suit in the pic was just too big for the flyer.
I can't recall about the thumb loops. Lou may be able to check out the suit if he still has it for demo and let you know.

Erno - regarding the snaps on the Firebird, I did ask Jari about them early last month and all custom and stock suit should have them (the early demos don't have them). As for snaps on the Phi, i have no idea.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I think the decicion to leave the leg-snaps from newer suits probably came from the feedback on those snaps with all GTi's/S3's.
It might just be us clumsy dutch folks, but I've seen quite a few suits with the snaps torn of.

The snaps where the leg wing is supposed to be fastened are reinforced on the S3(atleast they were on mine from the factory). The GTI does not have these reinforcements from the factory.

Dropping the snaps was a bad idea. I'll bet a lot of people that have brought the newer suits will request them.

I think dropping things like snaps, the little pocket to stow the extra LQRS cable, increase production speed. Just like not making standard size suits speeds up production times. So you want your suit faster? You can't get everything you wanted then.

Kris.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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Erno - regarding the snaps on the Firebird, I did ask Jari about them early last month and all custom and stock suit should have them (the early demos don't have them).

Go figure. Mine is a stock suit built after I ordered it, not an "early demo" as far as I know. No snaps.

[keisari 0]

Suit has been designed in purpose so that there is no thumb loops.

If you have to reach you risers fast, you can do it without opening zippers at all. If not, you can hold grippers and open zippers.

If you have to use reserve, you can reach reserve handles without opening zippers at all.

BIRDMAN Inc.
tel: +358 94 281 7299,
info@bird-man.com
http://www.bird-man.com

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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If you have to use reserve, you can reach reserve handles without opening zippers at all.

The problem Tonto is pointing out is:
1) Open main
2) Chop main, open reserve
3) Grap grippers("damn, I just dropped my handles") to open the zippers on the arms.

...if I understood correctly.

And I want my bootie snaps back.

[MarkM 0]

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If it cost so little and and is so easy to do why not do it at the factory

It may have to do with the suit sizing design. My MT is too small for me, but it still manages to fit because the design on the suit is flexible. The arm cuffs pull up past my wrists quite a bit and if part of the design was loops, it definately wouldn't fit as the loops wouldn't reach.

Loosing the loops may make the suit sizing a little more tolerant. I could actually fly the MT fine, it's just too much of a fight to get into the damn thing
The only thing I don't like on the PHI is the lack of a way to secure your legs, but I'll have to see how well tucking them into the suit works. Another option might be putting snappable/velcroable loops at the hips, then just thread that through the loop on the top of the booties to secure them at the hips.

[Tonto 1]

Quote

The only thing I don't like on the PHI is the lack of a way to secure your legs, but I'll have to see how well tucking them into the suit works. Another option might be putting snappable/velcroable loops at the hips, then just thread that through the loop on the top of the booties to secure them at the hips.

I see my PHI (Now that I've actually touched it..) has a rigid centre rib in the leg wing. That would account for the lack of snaps, at least in my book. Mine was bought as a demo... so sadly, someone will be out demoing it tomorrow. I may get a go on Sunday though...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[fenceline 0]

The DHL guy just drove away 20 minutes ago and I've already had my rig hooked up and tried it on. Fit is good, but I too was wondering what happened to the snap and the velcro-less cutaway cables. I thought the cables would be a nice innovation, but I can get over that. Overall, I like the look, but can't wait to fly it tomorrow.

As for that leg wing stiffener, does anyone else feel a 45 degree fold in it about mid piece?? It may have been from having been folded into the envelope, but not sure.

J

[Tonto 1]

Well, after a couple of flights...

The loops at the end of the sleeves I suggested are completely unessesary. Not having them has no ill effects, and allows you to get a full hand to the risers without unzipping, and makes for a far less claustrophobic experience than any other suit I've flown.

The snaps to keep the booties up? Also not needed. I just zipped up the legs and folded the bootie in like I do to walk out with a 4 way suit.
Landing with the leg wing loose has showed no ill effect.

The single diagonal zipper is pure joy and makes the suit easier to get into than any other I've worn.

As for the flight, well, it aint no S3, but its fun to fly, feels rock steady and is much, much more nimble. I'm looking forward to many, many more dives on it!

t

It's the year of the Pig.