rylord 0 #1 October 9, 2003 Hello all, I am a student getting ready to get my A-license shortly. I recently purchased a nice - but used Rig (it only has 3 jumps on it). I have the original purchase receipt for the rig, and canopies, and also came with the original manuals for both canopies. I was wondering if anyone could give me your opinion, insight, experiences on the particular gear I just bought. The harness/container is a Vector II and the Main canopy is a Raider 220 (F111), the reserve is a Maverick 200 (F111), and the AAD is an original Cypres with 3 years left on it. The lines are all bright white and brand-new...even though the entire rig and both canopies were originally purchased in 1989 from DeLand (I have the original receipt). The manufacturer of the canopies was Glide Path International, but now they are called Flight Concepts. The Vector rig itself is from Relative Works. At the moment - the rig is with a Rigger because it needs to have the reserve repacked/inspected due to being over 120 days currency...and the Cypres was sent to the manufacturer for inspection/battery install. The rigger also has to install the Cypres as well. I am currently jumping with a student rig - which has the following: Javelin harness/container, a 262ft (F111) main canopy, and a 250ft reserve. Any, and all information pertaining to my new gear would be helpful. Also I'm 6'2" and weigh 210lbs. was also wondering if this gear is right for my size/weight? I told you I'm a student Thanks much Rylord Kentucky Skydiving Center Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #2 October 9, 2003 I think it would have been more prudent to ask these questions before you bought the gear. Have your rigger check it out. I think you may have made a pretty good choice for starter gear, even if it is a bit out dated.The canopy sizes seem reasonable and Relative Workshop has made a very good rig for years. ---------------------------------------------Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #3 October 10, 2003 QuoteAlso I'm 6'2" and weigh 210lbs. was also wondering if this gear is right for my size/weight? Did you discuss this rig with your instructors before you bought it? Figuring 20 pounds for gear you exit the plane at about 230 lbs. I wouldn't have recommended a 1989 d.o.m. Maverick 200 sq ft reserve to you. Based on your exit weight you will load that canopy at about 1.15. While it's not a problem to load a newer, reinforced reserve over 1.0, the one you have is not reinforced, and the manufacturer originally recommended a max suspended weight of just over 200 pounds. You'd be loading the main at about 1.04, which isn't bad for your first main even on F111... assuming that it doesn't have a bunch of jumps on it (by a bunch I mean over about 500). As F111 canopies get more jumps on them they tend to lose flare power, which makes landing them a bit more interesting. All that said, it's not a bad starter rig, but imho it would be better for you if you were 190 pounds instead of 210. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #4 October 10, 2003 Lisa the 'skybytch' has it right. You have a good starter rig but you;re a bit heavy for the wingloadings. My BEER! rig was (still is...) a Raven 220 with a Stellar 165 reserve. Just to scare you all, I was cleared on the eliptical 170 class shortly off student status. Frankly, I disagreed then, and now, with this allowance given to me but shortly after that I began demoing many canopies. I've yet to fly a Sub-170 but I've flown every planform available from 170 through 220. At many DZ's I'm sure 'd be encouraged toi fly a 150 or less but I'm not "unbreakable" like many of the 20 year olds I see around in the sport I'm guessing you'll find the Raider 'fun'; You're not far off my wingloading and I enjoyed my 7 cell Raven for about 50-75 jumps. Mine is a tired canopy and I began to have troubles with its' flare power - something you'll not likely have if it is as new as you claim. if it is, you have several HUNDRED jumps to home your canopy skills on it and I suggest you take at least 200 to do so. Search for Billvon's recommendations on canopy downsizing soon. The Maverick will set you down even more quickly than the Raider. Do everything you can to learn the raged edge of canpy control under your main and under all conditions as soon as possible. Many, many clear and pulls from altitude with canopy control exercises (seek a CReW dog's advice if you can) will serve you well now. I've done this and my skills have saved me twice - even at a small 1 Cessna DZ. Remember, cannopy control is like driving a motorcycle - it's always 'the other guy' that causes the problem ... your task is to avoide the shite and stay alive! From my FJC onward, I enjoyed the canopy ride as much as the freefall its self. coming from a sports car racing background I also have a very high tolerance (....need....) for G forces , spirals, and swoops. I have not yet let this need over-ride my need to stay in one piece and so far my sense of self-preservation has served me well. Best of luck finding YOUR equilibruim in this respect. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aero04 0 #5 October 10, 2003 I have a Raider 220 main, but I've only got about 65 jumps on it. I can tell you what I think of it. For me, it is a good first canopy. It flies much like the student canopies I jumped, but it is more responsive due to the slightly higher loading. (My WL is 1.04 BTW). The openings, at first, were horrible. Hard openings were common for the first 15-20 jumps. To get a soft opening now, I VERY tightly roll the nose maybe 4-6 rolls, and shove it as far into the canopy as I can. Before I roll the tail, I pull the slider out a bit and make a little pocket with it. Then roll the shit out of the tail. I think the landings are fine, flaring with one stroke seems to work well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rylord 0 #6 October 10, 2003 QuoteI think it would have been more prudent to ask these questions before you bought the gear. Have your rigger check it out. I think you may have made a pretty good choice for starter gear, even if it is a bit out dated.The canopy sizes seem reasonable and Relative Workshop has made a very good rig for years. --------------------------------------------- Thanks. I did ask quite a few experienced skydivers at the DZ about the equipment as well. I wanted to get more input/feedback/information from the skydiving community and possibly from those who may have this equipment, or jumped it at one time. Basically, I want to learn everything I can about it. Since, none of the experienced skydivers at my DZ (a very small DZ) has a Raider 220 Main, so I thought I'd post my questions here. Thanks, I do appreciate your feedback. Rylord Kentucky Skydiving Center Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rylord 0 #7 October 10, 2003 Quote Did you discuss this rig with your instructors before you bought it? Figuring 20 pounds for gear you exit the plane at about 230 lbs. I wouldn't have recommended a 1989 d.o.m. Maverick 200 sq ft reserve to you. Based on your exit weight you will load that canopy at about 1.15. While it's not a problem to load a newer, reinforced reserve over 1.0, the one you have is not reinforced, and the manufacturer originally recommended a max suspended weight of just over 200 pounds. You'd be loading the main at about 1.04, which isn't bad for your first main even on F111... assuming that it doesn't have a bunch of jumps on it (by a bunch I mean over about 500). As F111 canopies get more jumps on them they tend to lose flare power, which makes landing them a bit more interesting. All that said, it's not a bad starter rig, but imho it would be better for you if you were 190 pounds instead of 210. Thanks for replying. I did discuss the rig with my instructors. I wanted to get more info and input from the experienced skydiving community on dropzone.com. The harness/container, and the main canopy has only 3 jumps on it. Its very evident that the Rig, and Main canopy is in brand-new condition...the F111 material is fresh, slick, and very much brand new like. All the lines, toggles, velcro, etc. are clean and new. Quite a few experienced skydivers examined the Rig and canopies for me, and all said it was brand-new and barely (if any) used. The original owner was from Germany, bought it from DeLand (he picked it up here in the US - based on the written handwritten sticky note on the original receipt) and only jumped the Rig 3 times. The reserve has never been jumped on. I am in the process of losing a few more pounds as well. I hope to be down to under 190 soon. Thank you very much for your reply and good information. Rylord Kentucky Skydiving Center Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #8 October 10, 2003 QuoteTo get a soft opening now, I VERY tightly roll the nose maybe 4-6 rolls, and shove it as far into the canopy as I can. Shoving a rolled nose as far as you can into the canopy is a very sure way of eventually experiencing a line-over malfunction. When you push the nose in, it pushes the steering lines apart and they migrate towards the nose of the canopy. They can very easily move around the front of the nose when you lay the canopy down to "cocoon" it. Additionally, during the "cocoon" process, when you are squeazing out the air and shaping the cocoon to fit the d-bag, the lines tend to migrate even more. If they are in front of the nose as the canopy inflates, one or more outboard cells can pressurize outboard of the steering lines and you have a line-over. Just for fun some day, after you have cocooned the canopy and are ready to stack it for placement into the d-bag, carefully unroll and open the tail. taking note of where the steering lines are in relation to the nose cells. If they are over the nose, you are at an increased risk of a line-over. If you are not sure of what I am describing, or what to look for, ask a rigger for some help.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aero04 0 #9 October 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteTo get a soft opening now, I VERY tightly roll the nose maybe 4-6 rolls, and shove it as far into the canopy as I can. Shoving a rolled nose as far as you can into the canopy is a very sure way of eventually experiencing a line-over malfunction. When you push the nose in, it pushes the steering lines apart and they migrate towards the nose of the canopy. They can very easily move around the front of the nose when you lay the canopy down to "cocoon" it. Additionally, during the "cocoon" process, when you are squeazing out the air and shaping the cocoon to fit the d-bag, the lines tend to migrate even more. If they are in front of the nose as the canopy inflates, one or more outboard cells can pressurize outboard of the steering lines and you have a line-over. Just for fun some day, after you have cocooned the canopy and are ready to stack it for placement into the d-bag, carefully unroll and open the tail. taking note of where the steering lines are in relation to the nose cells. If they are over the nose, you are at an increased risk of a line-over. If you are not sure of what I am describing, or what to look for, ask a rigger for some help. You are absolutely right on this. Many thanks for bringing this up. I am very aware of the risk and try to minimize it. When I first started packing, I could see through the topskin the steering lines had moved to the side on all my packs. I asked around and got a few pointers. Now it is rare. I kinda work the nose forward very slowly and carefully. I check every packjob to make sure no lines have moved to the sides because I know of the increased risk. Occasionally however, a line does work its way to the side. Aggiedave and Pablito have shown me a method of moving the lines back to the center. Works pretty well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ngawang01 0 #10 November 8, 2005 Show me that trick. "Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 November 8, 2005 No one has mentioned that this rig is NOT suitable for freeflying. It probably still has a leg strap throwout. A BOC can be added but the riser covers are closed with velcro and don't secure the risers well and the pin protector flaps are not particularly secure for non belly flying. While you might get away with freeflying for awhile you really shouldn't try it with this rig. BTW are you using someone else's account? Your story doesn't match the profile. If so I suggest you register for you own. It's free and useful.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #12 November 8, 2005 QuoteBTW are you using someone else's account? Your story doesn't match the profile. If so I suggest you register for you own. It's free and useful. Original post is 2 years old."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #13 November 8, 2005 Oops. My mistake.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
