Can I dye a rig?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I bought a rig which is purple. Unfortunately, parts of the harness, and the leg straps & chest strap are white (or at least should be:p ). Is there any way to dye them, even a light color, without comprimising the strength of the fabric? The rig is parapak, I assume the leg/chest straps are the same material on all rigs.

Thanks.
Angela.

[rigging65 0]

Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to try and dye webbing on a rig.

First off, you don't know for sure that the dye isn't going to compromise the strength. Although it probably won't.

Also, by dying them, you've altered the materials (which are certified) that make up your rig...which, technically, voids the TSO...unless you apply for and receive permission to perform the alteration from the Administrator (that's the FAA peoples).

Lastly, many dyes won't stay color-fast on the items you dye unless they are washed in or have another chemical "lock" put on them...so the dye may end up all over you and your jump suit.

With all this stuff in mind, I'd say, no, don't try and dye your webbing. If it's really that big an eye sore, you can get the harness replaced. We charge about $300 or so to do that sort of work with certified goods. Most mfgs. or large lofts will charge something similar.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Ok. Suppose i'll just try keeping it clean best I can. I'll probably clean it in a few weeks, the white is not gonna be around long. I suppose I could biff in a few times and then it'd be green. lol! j/k

thx.
Angela.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Another thought. How about if I wash it, can I scotchgard it or do anything to protect the white from getting so dirty?

Thx.
Angela.

[rigging65 0]

Absolutely. Scotch Guard does wonders to help keep stuff clean. But I'll bet you someone out there is going to comment about how putting Scotch Guard on the webbing violates the TSO the same as dye would.

In the FAA-law world, pretty much anything that you do to a certified material has to be re-tested and certified or you've altered the material, thus voiding the TSO.

With that said, I've never heard anyone say anything negative about Scotch Guarding webbing, legally or structurally.

All the law stuff aside, you're going to be much happier with the outcome of Scotch Guard than you are the dye route....or, if you really want to be happy, save your pennies and get the harness replaced in the color you want!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Thanks a bunch! I'll probably wash and scotchgard it, then. I'd love to get the webbing replaced, but it isn't really all that practical for me right now. I am just starting out, and the attraction to this rig had a lot to do with the price, although I do love the purple! I still have no main, helmet, et, et, etc.

Thanks again for your help.
Angela.

[ypelchat 0]

Quote

Absolutely. Scotch Guard does wonders to help keep stuff clean. But I'll bet you someone out there is going to comment about how putting Scotch Guard on the webbing violates the TSO the same as dye would.

In the FAA-law world, pretty much anything that you do to a certified material has to be re-tested and certified or you've altered the material, thus voiding the TSO.

With that said, I've never heard anyone say anything negative about Scotch Guarding webbing, legally or structurally.

All the law stuff aside, you're going to be much happier with the outcome of Scotch Guard than you are the dye route....or, if you really want to be happy, save your pennies and get the harness replaced in the color you want!

I'm just wondering how ScotchGuarding a rig, would violate the TSO? This is not a mod IMHO.




Yves.

[brits17 0]

it is an alteration though...

i've actually never heard the issue of scotch guard discussed so this is interesting... learning never stops yeah.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[ypelchat 0]

Quote

it is an alteration though...

i've actually never heard the issue of scotch guard discussed so this is interesting... learning never stops yeah.

Washing a container, is also an alteration then?



Yves.

[riggerrob 643]

I have washed and Scotchguarded hundreds of rigs and have worked with other riggers who have Scotchguarded thousands more rigs. We have never heard any complaints of material degradation.
If anything, the Scotchguard extends the life of the nylon because it prevents sand, salt and grit from penetrating the weave. Since grit cannot grind at the nylon from the inside, the whole rig lasts longer.
Scotchguard is a pretty mellow sealant.

In comparison, a long time ago a Talon returned to Rigging Innovations with the binding tape covered in some sort of leather dye. Since the second owner could not tell us what chemicals were involved, R.I. said: "This rig was never here. We never saw it. Because we do not have a clue as to what chemicals were used, we will not inspect it, we will not repair it, we will not do any updates, we will not repack it, and we will not knowingly sell spare parts for it."

[ypelchat 0]

Thanks! That's exactly what I was thinking.




I have one question though:

Can I just Scotchguard my container with both canopies packed, or should I remove them prior to doing it?



Yves.

[kevin922 0]

I think this issue was discussed here once before and one of the members from RWS or some other rig mfg replied saying someone had done that to their rig and sent it in for some fix or something and they grounded the rig b/c of it..

[ypelchat 0]

Quote

I think this issue was discussed here once before and one of the members from RWS or some other rig mfg replied saying someone had done that to their rig and sent it in for some fix or something and they grounded the rig b/c of it..

This thread becomes very interesting!

It would be cool to have the opinion of a rig manufacturer on this topic.



Yves.

[dragon2 2]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=440387#440387

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[councilman24 37]

I had a newby customer who bought a used rig at the end of the year in MI. He was so bored all winter that he used a fabric marker to change his rig from navy to black. He brought it to me in the spring to assemble and pack. I started looking at it and I knew something was wrong. But he'd done such a good job that the color was absolutely even. But it felt just a little weird. Then I realized the back side of the webbing was blue. He'd only done the surfaces that faced out so the webbing under the riser covers was still blue as well as the body side. I just started laughing. He'd done such a good job you couldn't see any stripes from the marker. When I told him it was junk now he said "The marker said it was safe for all fabrics." I told him if he wanted he could send it to RWS (is was a vector) and if they packed it fine. But I wasn't going to touch it. And I didn't want to set next to him on the airplane because it was kind of rubbing off.

Dyeing a OD green surplus rig black used to be the hot thing to do. Of course dyeing a rig is a major alteration and requires a master rigger.

Forget about the idea of dyeing a modern rig. It may be "possible" but it's not worth the effort, risk, or ugly rig your likely to end up with.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[brits17 0]

nope, my bad

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[rigging65 0]

Quote

Can I just Scotchguard my container with both canopies packed, or should I remove them prior to doing it?

You should remove all the canopies from the system, then follow the instructions on the can of Scotch Guard for best results. Let it dry (I'd double the recommended drying time, just to be sure) then put it back together and pack it!

Like I said before, it's my opinion that, very technically, there is really no difference between dying and Scotch Guarding. But there are certainly different perceptions in which one you can do and which one you can't do...at least in this industry.

I'm not saying shops don't Scotch Guard rigs all the time, but riggers should be aware that adding anything to a rig (chemicals included) technically constitutes an alteration, end of story.

In the real world, you make your own decisions and you take your own chances ...Scotch Guarding is something that most riggers are willing to risk. Is it going to effect your rig, most probably not...at least not that anyone has noticed in the last many years!!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[ypelchat 0]

Thanks!

But before I ScotchGuard my rig, I'd like to be sure. I surely dont want to ruin my brand new rig.

Also, the "airworthy" rules seem to be somewhat different, from a rigger to another. For instance, I may be able to find a rigger who would repack my reserve, and, 6 months later, another rigger would refuse to repack my reserve, because of the ScotchGuard.

If you have more information about this, feel free to post it.

Thanks again.


Yves.

[NightJumper 0]

Quote

It would be cool to have the opinion of a rig manufacturer on this topic.

As a manufacture we recommend the commercial grade Scotch Guard (Green Can). We have tested it and use it on rigs for customers.

[Casch 0]

Ok so adding ANYTHING to the webbing violates the TSO? What about sand/dirt/grass from a botched landing? Surely that also violates the TSO. Swoop pond water violates the TSO, they've got chemicals in them to keep the water nice and clean

[rigging65 0]

Quote

Ok so adding ANYTHING to the webbing violates the TSO? What about sand/dirt/grass from a botched landing? Surely that also violates the TSO. Swoop pond water violates the TSO, they've got chemicals in them to keep the water nice and clean

I do hate it when people take things so literally...

I think the defining difference is that you mean, intentionally, to add dye (or Scotch Guard) to the fabric of your system for the express purpose of changing that fabric (ie - it's now more stain resistant, a different color, whatever).

"Grass/dirt/sand" isn't something that you intentionally add (ok, most of you wouldn't) and it didn't get added to it with the intention of changing the characteristics of the fabric.

Better...?

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Casch 0]

No, a person does not add sand to their webbing on purpose, but it obviously has more damaging characteristics than Scotch Guard right?

If you accidently spilled dye on your rig, it would be ok? I don't think intention is the deciding factor in a TSO violation.

Now, I don't think dying a rig is a real smart thing to do. If a person insists on having it dyed, they should do so through professional means.

I think if using scotch guard on a rig made it less airworthy or violated the TSO, manufacturers would have probably posted notices by now.


I was being so literal in an attempt to make a point (I'm still working on my debating skills )