Emma 0 #1 October 6, 2003 Anyone have any stats on how rare a double total is? Thx Emma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #2 October 6, 2003 very, very rare. No, make that very, very, very rare. While you may get a couple of "I heard that..." If you want statistics in the sense of "one double total per 1,755,213 jumps" I'm pretty confident you won't get it. We'll you may get it, but it won't be reliable. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 October 6, 2003 100% when you don't use your gear and no AAD is fitted. That's something far more likely to happen than the gear failing. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #4 October 6, 2003 Ever heard of a double total where gear was at fault? I haven't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #5 October 6, 2003 QuoteEver heard of a double total where gear was at fault? I haven't. What do people consider to be a double mal? Is a main/reserve entanglement a double mal? I guess it is but the reserve only mal'd because it entangled with the main and not because it was packed incorrectly to begin with. But if we do count them yes, I've seen a double mal. S/L student left the strut and he put his arms down instead of up. The static line pulled the pilot chute assist under his arm and when he felt the spring and bridle he grabbed it. Held onto it almost all the way to impact. The FXC fired and the reserve entangled with the main lines that had enveloped him by that point. The round reserve material cleared the entanglement but the main bridle sinched around the skirt of the canopy. Never let it inflate. Had he performed his emergency procedures after 6 seconds as he was taught he might very well have had a better chance of surviving.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 October 6, 2003 Quote What do people consider to be a double mal? Is a main/reserve entanglement a double mal? I guess it is but the reserve only mal'd because it entangled with the main and not because it was packed incorrectly to begin with. The incident you describe sounds like a user mal to me.. Had he not grabbed the pilot chute - all would have gone well. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #7 October 6, 2003 QuoteWhat do people consider to be a double mal? Is a main/reserve entanglement a double mal? I guess it is but the reserve only mal'd because it entangled with the main and not because it was packed incorrectly to begin with. I'm sorry, perhaps I should have explained what is meant by a total malfunction, which is what my question is about. A total is where no part of the canopy deploys. For instance, a hackey not removed from the BOC after packing would likely cause a total. Someone stitching the reserve canopy into the container would probably also cause a total on the reserve. A double total therefore is where no part of either canopy deploys, causing a terminal impact. A reserve/main entanglement would be impossible in a double total. In similar vein and to avoid confusion, a partial malfunction is that where at least part of the canopy is out but for some reason is not functioning properly. Double total malfunctions, to the best of my knowledge, are extremely rare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #8 October 6, 2003 Double mal where the gear was at fault - oh yeah (well, sort of). About 10 years ago, there was a recall on the reserve pilot chutes from a particular manufacture. One of the guys at my DZ had one of these rigs that he jumped regularly for CRW. As a matter of coincidence, the rig had tertsh (sp?) rings on it, so he took it up for an intentional. Total mal - he landed the 20' round. That's a straight from the horses mouth "no shit there I was" story witnessed by many!! Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,584 #9 October 7, 2003 The Green Star Express rig had a problem with stitching on the reserve risers. At least one jumper went in when his reserve separated from his harness. That would certainly count as a double total to me. A friend had a reserve loop lock on a Piglet in the 70's. It opened at 400 feet (he'd pulled just below 2000). Had he died, that would definitely have counted as a double total, too. But calling them "rare" probably overestimates the frequency. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #10 October 7, 2003 QuoteThat would certainly count as a double total to me. I thought the definition of a total is where nothing comes out, ie - a hard pull, or arguably container lock. In my mind, once something comes out it can't be a total, even if it comes out and separates. Semantic arguments are.... semantic. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #11 October 7, 2003 QuoteQuoteThat would certainly count as a double total to me. I thought the definition of a total is where nothing comes out, ie - a hard pull, or arguably container lock. In my mind, once something comes out it can't be a total, even if it comes out and separates. Semantic arguments are.... semantic. If you hit the ground @ 120 mph trailing a pilotchute or a floating ripcord, then by definition it's a total. A partial by definition, occurs when the canopy (the key word here canopy)is only partialy deployed. _Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #12 October 7, 2003 Patrick de Gayardon? ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #13 October 7, 2003 Boy you can tell the cold weather is coming, the "what-ifs" are coming out. That said, I think the chance of a double total are so slim it is hardly worth considering. I think if it was to happen, likely foul play would be a factor. The recent possiblity would be a broken reserve ripcord where the pin stays over the grommet, no AAD, and a total on the main. This would create the situation you are querying. TroyTroy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
