bodypilot1 0 #1 July 20, 2004 After being T boned by another friend in a wingsuit during a simple 3 way flocking dive this weekend, I just thought I'd write this simple reminder to you flockers as I sit here with bruised ribs, lung, liver and right leg from the hip to the ankle. The incident happened after we had exited from a Beech 99 at 13000ft. I was doing a simple 3 way with 2 friends that I had did many flocking dives before, so there really wasn't any talk about the pattern because we all knew what it was, or thought we knew what it should have been... After alittle separation upon exit we came together and were flying relatively close with about 25ft of vertical and horizontal separation between the 3 of us. I was in the middle and made a move to my left passing just under my friend and stopping about 20 ft away to fly a parallel pattern up the line of flight, thus leaving him in the middle. As I looked down to see where we where, and saw that we were at 8000ft , I was going to get ready to do our slow left turn to head around back to the DZ. As I glanced back to my right I just caught a glimpse of my friend, that was on the far right outside and was about 70ft from me, hit me head first in the ribs and legs. His head was down and not looking in the direction he was flying, but looking back under his wing as he passed under the guy in the middle. The impact instantly knocked the breath out of me and sent both of us into a out of controlled spin. It felt as though my guts had exploded and I knew I had to get something out before going unconscious, so I looked to see I was belly to earth and pulled my main. My vision blurred but I stayed conscious and evaluated the best way to get down safely. It took me until about 2000ft to get my breath back and I landed safely. He got out of the spin, flew to 3000ft and pulled his main. He explained after I landed that he never saw me as he went under our friend in the middle...... Luckily he only has a stiff neck and now possibly thinking of getting a Cypres..... So, to stop this from happening again. PLEASE KNOW WHERE ALL YOUR OTHER FLOCKERS ARE BEFORE DOING A HARD CARVING TURN. TALK ABOUT YOUR PATTERN BEFORE EVERY JUMP AND FLY THE PATTERN. If you dont see all the flockers on the jump and you want to change your flight pattern, do a nice slow turn and watch where you are going. Wingsuits have a tremendous forward speed and looking down or behind doesn't do anygood for the person that may be in front of you. If anyone would like to add some pointers to remember while flocking please do so. Be safer!www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #2 July 20, 2004 Glad you're ok and we can all learn from this, Ed. Hope you feel better...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #3 July 20, 2004 Ed, sorry to hear about your experience but glad to hear you are alright. I have witnessed what you described from slightly above and from your position, the receiving end. In both instances, the individual had become fixated either on the ground or the people below him on the flock. In both incidents, an experienced flyer failed to look to his left before turning and ran into another flyer at a 90 degree angle, clipping the other flyers legs and sending himself into a spin. Luckily neither was hurt but the whole thing happened in a matter of seconds and both could of lost their lives. In the second incident I was in the flock, slightly above the base with other flyers around me. Would of been a normal day of flocking but the flyer to my right was fixated on the base and was attempting to jocky into another position closer to the base. I saw him coming at me becasue I was checking out my left and right sides before I made any movements myself. The other flyer was coming at me full speed at about a 45 degree angle, oblivious to my being there, had he looked before moving, he would of seen me. Having seen him coming at me I slowed my speed and sunk down quickly to avoid a strike. The other guy had no clue he almost caused an accident until we were on the ground. In both incidents the offender was the same guy. During the BMI course I cover safety issues and one of them is flocking and considerations that need to be addressed on the ground, before getting on the plane. The biggest thing I see on flocking dives is people getting fixated on the base or other flyers and not paying attention to what is going on around them as they fly.Some of them are common sense but no matter who or how many people are there during the dirt dive I cover safety issues like look before you turn/move, no hard turns, No "popping" up while in formation and to wave off.If you don't say it, sure as shit ,somone will do exactely that and it's usually the more experienced flyers."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdobleman 0 #4 July 20, 2004 Ed, Sorry you had to experience this for the rest of us and hope you repair well soon. But thanks for sharing it, it's what I needed to hear again before we go flocking next week at Lost Prairie. madjohn Main goals in life: Be on the "Jumpers Over Eighty" (JOE) World Record and attend the Lost Prairie Boogie once after I'm gone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #5 July 20, 2004 Interesting, Scott. I've had two very close calls on tracking dives, each one I moved up at the last second to see the person go inches under my nose at a fast relative speed (in retrospect it would have been a lot easier to drop down as you did). Now I'm wondering if maybe it was partially my fault, since it *has* happened to me twice. But at least in both instances I *did* see it coming (even if not until the last 2 seconds), and in both instances the other person was unaware of it, even on the ground. So I guess to be safer I just should have noticed it sooner than 2 seconds before impact. As stated, this was in a tracking dive and it was scary as hell and looked like it would have hurt to say the least - in a BM jump I don't even want to imagine what it looks/feels like with those forward speeds.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsane 0 #6 July 20, 2004 I'm glad you survived and you're on the mend. This is exactly the kind of thing we need to be aware of in Rantoul. Wingsuit flying has gotten a lot more popular and the potential for accidents may be greater than ever before. Bouncing a couple of wingsuit flyers would be very bad for the sport (not to mention the folks involved). I'm hoping we'll start with small flocks and get larger as the experience and comfort levels increase. The BMCI's out there (and us BMIs) can hopefully help out ... maybe keeping lists of folks who're experienced at different flock levels. That way we can all have fun safely. I've been on large flocks where people were buzzing around like flies and been struck myself. Don't buzz around. Move slowly. Never point yourself more than a few degrees from the base persons line-of-flight. Let's be safe! I want to walk home, not be carried there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #7 July 20, 2004 Safety issues is one of the topics I plan on covering at the Seminar at WFFC. Like you said, Wingsuits have gotten a lot more popular and unfortunately, most people don't get the opportunity to fly in large flocks or in some cases, fly with other wingsuits. The potential for those people and the others around them to get hurt goes up when more people are added to the flock. As far as I am concerned, at WFFC everyone is there trying to kill me so I make sure to keep a good eye out, as should everyone else."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #8 July 20, 2004 Damn, Ed. That really sucks. I'm glad that didn't end up worse. With the forward speeds we get in these suits, a t-bone collision can definitely be deadly. I've learned these few basic rules for avoiding collisions in any form of skydiving or 3D traffic: - Do not lose sight of your fellow jumpers. If you do, do not make any aggressive maneuvres. - Keep your head on a swivel. Look in every direction that your neck will allow before making a big turn. - When approaching another jumper, get on level and then move in. Do not charge or swoop directly at the jumper. Put on your brakes before reaching your target. - Have a plan and stick to it the best that you can. Have a backup plan in case you fall out."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vesatoro 0 #9 July 21, 2004 In the Hercules boogie there will be about 40 wingsuit flyers, doing minimum 8-ways and maybe a maximum of 30-40-way. I also would concider a short safety seminar before jumping a better than a good idea to try to prevent these things from happening. Vesa "Fear is the path to the Dark side" (Master Yoda) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #10 July 22, 2004 Just reading some of the replies, I see that a few people have been in similar situations during flocking dives that have came close to what I was involved in. Yes, complete briefings from your flight pattern, to your opening altitudes are very much needed during flocking dive, even with something as small as a 2 way! I normally do this, and teach this, but unfortunatly we may have became abit complacent on this jump and didn't, maybe because we have jumped so may times together.....but this time "shit happened", and we'll all try our best to try and make sure it doesn't happen again. Thanks for everyones concern. I am healing just fine and will be back flocking in no time. Chuck and Scott, I'll see you still in Rantoul. Be safe -www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
