Rdutch 0 #1 December 16, 2003 Today I was doing a Bmi, the student was very heads up, the jump went well, but on the practice pulls there was a lot of the usual "potato chipping" the practice pull wasn't symetrical, and he was diving because of his legs not being closed. That happens a lot, the rest of the dive went well and his deployment was good. He wasnt 100% sure about the jump and asked for another coach jump. This time I let him lead the exit, and it was all good, he was flying well. All of a sudden I notice that something is flapping around on his back, I thought it was his bridle, but it was his qrls. All I can think is since it was a Porter exit and he was close to the back of the door he clipped it on exit, we did a go over before exit, and his suit was fine, all handles in place. Anyway Im thinking Oh shit, then I see its a quick release and not a bridle, but I thought it was a wing, he was flying good, so what to do? All I could do was hope it didnt fall out, and if so, with his training he could handle it. It wasnt good, it was his qrls, then it got ugly. On his wave off he closed his leg and the qrls flew away, releasing his leg, only on one side. My theory: This released one side, and effectively with the leg inflated and only one side attatched created a Propellor effect, because immediately he started to spin rapidely, he then fought for his hackey and ended up on his back in a flat spin. This all started at 5'000 ft, and with this happening his decent rate increased, I watched this until my Neptune Flat lined and then I deployed way too low. Immediately I beleived he had went in. When I had an open canopy I looked everywhere and couldnt see him, and didn't until I was setting up for my landing, he was hidden by the setting sun. On the ground the jumper was calm and confused, he claimed he always knew what altitude he was at. Either way he pulled way too low, as did I just watching, My conclusion: No matter what PULL! and Pull in time, at the right altitude. The QRLS falling out at pull time, definitely was something that caused a severe problem, and the events that followed were none the better. This was definitely a new problem, and definitely something that wont happen everyday, but there is something to think about. If this had happened at a higher altitude, he could have easily closed his leg and either cut away his wing's or closed his arms and then Deployed. Unfortunately this happened at the worst time, and everything went to shit and fast. This is something I have never thought of, A QRLS falling off is something I have never heard of, but it happened, so it is something to think about, and how to handle it is something to think about also. I welcome any input anyone has to offer, and I will be talking to Jari as soon as he returns about this situation. I just wanted to bring this possibility that suit failure is a possibility, and should be thought of as an emergency situation that you should think of. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #2 December 16, 2003 Quotesomething that wont happen everyday, but there is something to think about. ....I welcome any input anyone has to offer Ray I am in agreement with you that this is indeed one of those strange occurences. My advice on this as I'm sure will be Jari's is that in your situation where you see something that the student (or another flyer for that matter) can't see that is a safety issue, or potentialy an issue, you need to let them know they need to pull now. Again for a student they should be familiar with the hand and arm signals because you as a BMI just went over them with them. Other flyers hopefully still remember the hand and arm signal for pull and will take the appropriate action when they see it. Altitude is always your friend so have them pull before they come into their hard deck altitudes and if anything , they just have a shorter flight and a longer canopy ride. Better to err on the side of caution. When you swing by the bird house also ask Jari for a copy of the TLO worksheet so you can come up to speed on the latest and greatest. Any thoughts/ideas what he caught his LQRS on or what might have caused it to come undone?"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #3 December 16, 2003 I am not a BMI but I think Lou’s advice is great and I really think it applies to all skydives of any kind. That is if you notice something that may be a potential safety issue on that skydive whether it is a freefly, RW, wingsuit jump, the jump is over and you need to get the attention of the jumper who has the issue and let him know about it so he or she can deal with it while time allows. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #4 December 16, 2003 Wow, that's nuts, Ray. Not sure how many of the rest of you have dealt with a leg-zipper blowout,but I have. All I had to do to keep straight was keep my toes pointed. Having your LQRS come undone is something entirely different though. What I would do in that instance is cross my legs to collapse the wings, then dump. I would say that this guy is VERY lucky. First jump course review here: Your pull priorities are ALWAYS, no matter what kind of skydive you are on are- -pull -pull AT THE CORRECT ALTITUDE -pull at the correct altitude with stability Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airborne03 0 #5 December 17, 2003 glad your alright! and your student! "Airborne all the way" EL Cantador Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #6 December 21, 2003 No more scarry stories we need Ray in one piece! After all, I am recruiting you to be my bmi next time you are in Ohio. I should have enough jumps by then cause I'm jumpin my ass off in Florida! Gotta get out in the warm Lake Whales air....Can we say naked jump?!?! Who's doin' video?!?! U R gonna be there right Ray?Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #7 December 22, 2003 QuoteGotta get out in the warm Lake Whales air....Can we say naked jump?!?! Who's doin' video?!?! Tell me when, I'll be there with video! Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #8 December 22, 2003 My friend requested a New Year's jump since he will also be in Lake Whales then but if it doesn't work out like that I'll make a post or PM ya to let ya know. Thanks for the offer, I do need video and even if we get more than one video I'm sure we'll be good to go Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #9 December 22, 2003 QuoteNo more scarry stories we need Ray in one piece! After all, I am recruiting you to be my bmi next time you are in Ohio. Yeah! I bet you'll have to try really hard to get Ray as your bmi! (Good choice in a bmi, though, Paige!) Now, a question for the stupid. I'm pretty sure that the LQRS is a loop, right? Is there something else that can be used there...like a cutaway pillow or something...maybe less of a chance of it getting caught on something??? (yes, I have a whopping 6 birdman jumps and know nothing...ignore my dumb question! )There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #10 December 22, 2003 QuoteQuoteNo more scarry stories we need Ray in one piece! After all, I am recruiting you to be my bmi next time you are in Ohio. Yeah! I bet you'll have to try really hard to get Ray as your bmi! (Good choice in a bmi, though, Paige!) I am sure Ray is in high demand and it may be tricky but I'll do my darndest to get him up in the air with me. Maybe I'll have to take a trip down to FL to escape the OH weather and bribe him with beer and partying! Of course in the summer its really not that bad but its still Ohio and that sucks!Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #11 December 22, 2003 > I'm pretty sure that the LQRS is a loop, right? Is there something > else that can be used there...like a cutaway pillow or > something...maybe less of a chance of it getting caught on > something??? The arm releases are loops as well. Since there is much less grabbing of grippers, harnesses and the like when flying a wingsuit, I would think that the likelihood of an early release is lower than in ordinary skydiving (although clearly not zero.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #12 December 23, 2003 Quote and bribe him with beer and partying! And he may need a new helmet for the BIGGER HEAD too? www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #13 December 23, 2003 Quote> I'm pretty sure that the LQRS is a loop, right? Is there something > else that can be used there...like a cutaway pillow or > something...maybe less of a chance of it getting caught on > something??? The arm releases are loops as well Loop or pillow cutaways are an option QuoteSince there is much less grabbing of grippers, harnesses and the like when flying a wingsuit, I would think that the likelihood of an early release is lower than in ordinary skydiving (although clearly not zero.) But you do have at least two releases (three with LQRS) which are more exposed and less visible than your rig's cutaway and reserve, that you are less aware of, especially when inexperienced. It also depends on the plane (space and snag hazards). On my first suit (GTi) I went for pillows to reduce the snag hazard but have loops on my Skyflyer and S3.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #14 December 23, 2003 QuoteQuote and bribe him with beer and partying! And he may need a new helmet for the BIGGER HEAD too? Hehehe Good call, maybe I can find a really big one so he'll have plenty of room!Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
