ManBird 0 #1 September 30, 2003 Anyone been over two minutes in their Pantz yet? I just got them, but got 92 seconds on Sunday (dumped at 3k), and I think Grasshopper got closer to 100 seconds while he was up here, and may have done better by now. I'd guess that somebody's done it by now."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #2 September 30, 2003 have to check on my protrack, but we did not far from that (90) with regular FF pants...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #3 September 30, 2003 I'll tell ya what I get with the "smoke pants" when I get a chance to try them in a week or two. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #4 September 30, 2003 Cool. I'm still looking for big enough nylon pants. I've found some large one, but I want some where the crotch goes down to my knees (for $25 or less)."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #5 October 1, 2003 i did 84 seconds last saturday in tight nylon RW suit. but i opened low :) not good ... i also got to 85 mph at some point. stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #6 October 1, 2003 Nice. My fall rate in the Pantz stays at about 80 - 84 MPH, with a couple ten to fifteen second "sweet spots" down to the low and mid 70s. I've only put about six jumps on 'em so far. They fly great right away, but I'm really looking forward to playing with these a lot, especially during winter when we won't have full altitude a lot. The mega-padded knees make these great for packing and for potential swoop screw-ups."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #7 October 1, 2003 i got to 96 mph average for one jump, but my speed at the end got back to 110 mph right before i pulled. i also got to 290+ mph using the same suit for my speed dives :) stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #8 October 1, 2003 I jumped the Pantz once and wasn't a big fan of them, I can track better in my RW suit. I found with the pants that since there was so much drag on my legs that my body was getting pitched forward and down and I ended up diving. I would probably need to add more drag to my upper body and do some more jumps with them. My best track with my RW suit (tigh with booties) is about 82 average speed and I think 84 seconds of freefall time exiting at 14000 and pulling at 5000. I don't have the exact numbers but it was right around there.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #9 October 1, 2003 QuoteI found with the pants that since there was so much drag on my legs that my body was getting pitched forward and down and I ended up diving. I would probably need to add more drag to my upper body and do some more jumps with them.Definitely. I wear a freefly jacket with my Pantz, but a longsleeve shirt that isn't too tight will do just fine. Pantz, especially the BASE version, are made for forward speed. The lift is a byproduct. How many times did you jump with Pantz and which version did you fly? They're great right off the bat, but do take a little figuring out (especially arm position) to really nail them. I also think the freefly version isn't quite as effective, in terms of tracking, as the BASE version. When I first flew them, my fall rate was about 95 (in my usual max track). Same deal, I was pitched forward a little bit. I found that if my arms are slightly out to my sides and my legs aren't right up against each other (the inflation closes the "gap"), that within just five jumps I'd shaved about 14 MPH off of my average fall rate, with sweet spots/stalls another 10 MPH off of that. It also makes a big difference to apply that whole "progressive" track thing to Pantz, as well. It's what I do with any type of track, really... wingsuit, freefly suit, shorts and a t-shirt, whatever. Basically, get in the applicable "max track" position with a nice d-arch to get down to your stall speed (without going under). As you hit your stall speed, smoothly flatten out your d-arch. You'll usually bolt forwards while maintaining or only slightly increasing your fall rate. Going just for lift always makes me crawl forwards, going just for forward speed usually drops me. This "progressive" approach usually ends out giving me the best glide ratio. It'd make a difference with your RW suit, too, but Pantz can usually give you a lower fall rate by going for max lift (since they basically turn your legs into a giant valved pilot chute), and then flattening out. Timed correctly, one should be able to get a better overall glide ratio with Pantz than what they are used to with their RW or freefly suits. Where was I going with this? Who knows. Break time is over. Back to work."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #10 October 1, 2003 QuoteCool. I'm still looking for big enough nylon pants. I've found some large one, but I want some where the crotch goes down to my knees (for $25 or less). Cool ! How will you wear your legstraps ? Will you cut holes for them ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #11 October 1, 2003 you were them over your rig. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #12 October 1, 2003 Yeah. Over the leg straps. I put the jacket on first, then the rig, then the pants. I just bought the pants, jacket, all the materials for $37! Blue Columbia pants and a green North Face jacket, both a few sizes too large. Ugly as hell, but should work. They're both made of the same pretty dang non-breathable waterproof material. I'll need girlfriend and/or rigger assistance though, as I don't sew at all. Maybe now's the time to learn."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #13 October 1, 2003 I only did one jump with the Pantz and they were the freefly version. I know that one jump with them definitely is not enough to really learn them but I didn't feel like buying a pair of them to really try out. As I said, my best solo tracking dive was 82 avg vertical speed. My first jump with the pants was mid 90s for the average but I could not find the sweet spot on them since I was trying to go fast, pitching forward and then lightening up trying to regain a flatter glide. As for the progrssive track I think what you are saying is to start up dearched and as you gain speed to get flat? I usually do it the other way. As most of my tracks are away from formations (I'm primarily an RW guy) I start by going from my arch to flattening out as I turn away from the formation and gradually dearching as I track away. I'm sure that Pantz should give me a slower average fall rate than my RW suit since there is so much more surface area. I think that I'd just need to do a bunch of jumps with them to figure them out which will have to wait until nationals is done. I think there's three other people that would kill me if I jumped the Pantz instead of doing RW... Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #14 October 1, 2003 QuoteAs for the progressive track I think what you are saying is to start up dearched and as you gain speed to get flat? I usually do it the other way. As most of my tracks are away from formations (I'm primarily an RW guy) I start by going from my arch to flattening out as I turn away from the formation and gradually dearching as I track away.No, not get flat as you gain speed... start d-arched to slow down vertically, and as you reach your stall speed, flatten out (thus decreasing your profile) to gain speed horizontally. But that is obviously not appropriate for escaping from a group... distance would definitely have to come first. 99.9999% of my tracking is on tracking dives, and most of those are solo, using canopies or cars below as a reference. Whatever floats your boat, or butt, or, er... something."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #15 October 2, 2003 Cool, well I'll definitely check that out as well as put a few more jumps on the Pantz after nationals.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #16 October 2, 2003 you dont have to sew much of anything, just thread a belt through it then some shoelaces through the ankles. Looks like it will work. I found some rain pants in my attic and I'll go to the goodwill for a rain jacket. Mismatching the colors seems to be a bonus. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #17 October 2, 2003 Funny that you mentioned shoelaces. That's exactly what I'm using. I'm just burning some holes at first (with a cigarette, of course), and will use grommets later, so that they don't frey/rip too much."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #18 October 17, 2003 I just bought my self the biggest pair of rainpants I could find. They were size XXXL and the crotch came almost down to my knees.. I burned the holes, and went to the DZ. I taped my legs and waist very well (wearing my legstraps under my pants of course). I also wore a Helly Hansen Sailing jacket wich I thought would give me enough area in my torso and arms.. The exit was a blast.. I really felt when the legs inflated an how much control I had in my body.. But, a few seconds later I really had to do some work in order to stay in track and not turning Headdown.. I had too much area in my legs, compared to my arms and torso. I had to track keeping my arms under me in about 40 degree angle. That way I didnt go HD but I could still track someworth. The deployment was a bit scary as I was prettymuch HD when I threw my PC... My average was about 140 km/h. And I know I could get 100km/h pretty easy if I had enough area in my arms too.. I guess I have to go and make my self a track jacket.. Any ideas are welcome.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #19 October 17, 2003 Funny thing about the whole smoking pants thing is I have jumped in my Military Gore-tex pants and jacket on those cold work jumps and get the same effect pretty much even though I am basically wearing a tandem rig. I think too much material is not a benefit as it causes stability problems."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #20 October 17, 2003 Nice! I did the pants and jacket last weekend and, weather permitting, will be jumping it tomorrow. Can't wait to see what happens. Getting that fall rate's pretty good for one flight with just the pants. That's about what I get with my BirdMan Pantz, but it took about five or six jumps to get there."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
