flipper 0 #1 August 13, 2003 This has no doubt been asked before...for this I apologise.. I am currently jumping a sabre 150 / PD 143 wrapped up in a vector container....I have no probz with Vector containers...its just lookin a bit shabby and would like to update.... What do you guys jump and why...also how many times you have suffered line twists during winged flight any help / advice that you guys can offer would be very cool thankz Flipper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #2 August 13, 2003 I did my first jumps with an unmodified Atom Classic (Spectre 135). I now have a Teardrop SF (Sabre2 120) with an 11ft bridle but no other mods. I've probably had twists 5 times out of 50 flights, no chops but I'd like to get that percentage down a bit, 10% seems a bit high. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #3 August 13, 2003 Ive done around 25 on my GTI with no hassle...with no mods to the rig....do you think the 11 foot bridle makes a difference ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 August 13, 2003 Quotedo you think the 11 foot bridle makes a difference ? Definately, I'm getting much more positive and predictable openings than I was. I'm flying a GTi too so the burble isn't as big as a Skyflyer but yes, I think it makes a difference. Having said that, many people jump completely unmodified kit with no complaints. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #5 August 13, 2003 I jump a GTI & an S3 (mainly my s3 now).. i jump a mirage (pre g3) when I first got the gti it was unmodded.. had one cutaway due to line twists which in part had something to do with the way the dbag was put in, but also in part due to the corners. After the rig was modded (corners cut) i have had a dramatic improvement on my openings. If i were to get a new rig (which i had planned on doing for a while) i'd get a wings.. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #6 August 13, 2003 Mirage G-3 Sabre2 with bridle at 9. Seat in tray with grommet up. No line twists, no mods. BB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #7 August 13, 2003 I currently have a GTI and a Skyflyer3. I have a new Infinity container that I jump with the Skyflyer3 with a birdman pilot chute (100” bridle), and I have had no problems and no other mods done to my rig( I have had line twist twice but each time I had a really weak throw of the pilot chute). I have jumped my B rig an Eclipse container with my GTI and had no problems but I really would not recommend using an Eclipse container without having the corners on the rig modified( when I jumped with it I would colapse all wings and lose as much forward speed as possible before deploying). I also have jumped an old Javelin container and a Talon container with my GTI with no mods to either container and just a standard pilot chute bridle length and each container worked just fine. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #8 August 13, 2003 QuoteMirage G-3 Sabre2 with bridle at 9. Seat in tray with grommet up. No line twists, no mods. BB Do you have one of those "square" d-bags? i.e. more square than rectangular? do you pack grommet up for any of your other jumps or just wingsuit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #9 August 13, 2003 My current (subject to change in the very near future) BirdMan rig (which is never un-sewn from my S3) is a 1998 Javelin XRS. No cut corners. Long bridle. Packed pin to grommet. No problems at all. I also have a 2001 Javelin Odyssey RS with a long bridle and no other mods. No problem with that rig at all either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 August 13, 2003 QuoteWhat do you guys jump and why... Infinity by Velocity Sports Equipment. (edit: I jump stock features, 6-7ft. bridle, pull out deployment(not recomended)Can be ordered w/ longer bridle.) Because: I like it's looks, I like it's features, It's built the way I want it, The price is right, Kelly is a nice guy, countless other reasons. Quotealso how many times you have suffered line twists during winged flight Once. In over 200 flights. Quotealso how many times you have suffered line twists during winged flight Work on a symetrical deployment. Reduce your foward speed on deployment. Don't fuck up.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #11 August 13, 2003 QuoteDo you have one of those "square" d-bags? i.e. more square than rectangular? Standard issue. Quotedo you pack grommet up for any of your other jumps or just wingsuit Depends on which container I am jumping. If it is my older Mirage I always pack it as recommended by the manufacturer since I am on the small end for canopy. The new Mirage is always packed grommet to pin since I use this for wing suit and am on the large size for the canopy/container size. * A side note* The Swiss National Team Endevour always packs their Mirage grommet to pin. They feel that it makes for a better deployment off their back. We share the same packer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #12 August 13, 2003 I fly the S3 and the GTi (about 90 and 190 flights respectively) on my Wings with open corners. I had a 108" bridle and 28" PC, and a very "square" bag that I always packed grommet to pin, but they were stolen after a chop. I've had line twists about five times, but they were all on my unmodded Racer Elite. My canopy was a Sabre 120, and my reserve is a PD-126. My incoming canopy is a Sabre2 107. Line twists never turned to spinners on me. The corner mods probably make the biggest difference, as line twists were virtually eliminated for me after this mod (half a twist at most on the rare occassion). I'm going up to a 12' bridle and the biggest collapsable PC I can get, as I have had a few hesitations and two PC in tows (pin extracted one and rode my reserve on the other). I didn't really have hesitation issues until I started flying the S3 (though my pin extraction happened on my GTi), which has a lot of surface area on it, and can fatigue you quite a bit, resulting in a weak pull. As "thin" as the burble is when flying a wingsuit, dead air is still dead air."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #13 August 15, 2003 Sun Path Javelin Odyssey with wingsuit corners and WS bridle (about 100"). Derek Thomas (Sun Path co-owner with his wife Pat) flies a BirdMan Skyflyer so he understands the needs of WS flyers. You can order your container to be made with a longer bridle (to let your PC get away from the big burble) and wingsuit corners (which allows your main container to flap completely open once the pin is popped. It also allows you to pack your main bag with the bridle grommet towards your feet as is best for WS openings). Often times, line twists come from the bag being stuck in the container, the bridle being too short or the PC being too weak (if it's old and too small). I did about 200 jumps on a normal Javelin with no mods at all and was happy with it - had a line twist maybe 1 out of 20 flights (on an elliptical loaded at 1.5, so the line twists were not a train smash). So, it's not that you HAVE to have the mods to safely fly the suit but they do help you have a clean deployment. Your wingloading and canopy type (eliptical or not) should play a factor in deciding to get the WS mods or not. Of course, the higher your wingloading the less you want to get yourself in to linetwists. If you are jumping a very conservative square canopy getting the mods may not make much of a difference to you. Just make sure to pack bridle up (as bbarnhouse mentioned earlier). My openings could not be better, the rig looks great, has a long record of being a safe rig, is easy to pack and is the most comfortable rig I've ever worn. My honest and heartfelt 2cents! ~Kim Griffin BMI/E, AFF JM, S/L JM, SDU, blah blah blah (See picture attached of Vladi Pesa's Javelin (left) and mine on the right. The pic is taken at the BirdMan booth at the 2003 PIA Symposium.)-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #14 August 16, 2003 I REALLY want one of those stowless d-bags. Was checking out Jay Mo's at the PST here. Too bad Wings doesn't have one. :( Think Javelin would make one for my rig? I hope they don't patent that idea. I'd like to see all d-bags go this way."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #15 August 18, 2003 Thankz for the info.....you have all been very helpful.... regardz Flipper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #16 August 19, 2003 Well, if they haven't patented it already, then it's too late...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #17 August 19, 2003 Hey Steve. Yeah... I llike the new "Berger" stowless bag (named after Morten Berger, who invented it - he works for PD actually.) It looks kind of funky and like it's going to complicated to pack but it's SO easy. I only have a few flights on it but so far so good - nice deployments, no broken rubber bands - a benifit to a lazy packer like me. Not sure if it's patented but when has that stopped any one in the skydiving industry? Faster slower longer ~Kim-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #18 August 19, 2003 QuoteQuotePacked pin to grommet. Please forgive my ignorance here, but what does this mean?? I put my d-bag in the normal way you would on a terminal opening (lines at the bottom, bag on it's side). Is there some other way to pack so that an 'un-modified' rig opens a bit more reliable with BM suits on?? Knock on wood, so far I've only had one line twist in 8 flights and it wasn't even a full one at that. Any insights would be great!! Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #19 August 19, 2003 grommet to pin means the grommet where the bridle comes out is packed up against your pin, i.e. you rotate the dbag 90 degrees so the bridle is coming straight up, can be tough with big dbags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blair700 0 #20 August 19, 2003 Hey Steve, Tell me more about this stowless dbag, is it like a tail pocket on the dbag, or are the lines freepacked in the container?? Just curious, sounds interesting and no-one comes to visit my DZ with cool chit Thanks Blair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #21 August 19, 2003 Quotesounds interesting and no-one comes to visit my DZ with cool chit Come to Eloy for the Annual Gathering of the Clan Dec 24-Jan 4. All the cool "chit" will be here for you to see and try. Cheers! BB PS Thanks Kim! xoxox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #22 August 20, 2003 QuoteHey Steve, Tell me more about this stowless dbag, is it like a tail pocket on the dbag, or are the lines freepacked in the container?? Just curious, sounds interesting and no-one comes to visit my DZ with cool chit Thanks BlairIt's the same concept as a tailpocket, but it's on the bag and closes with flaps. Just figure-8 the lines in the pocket, close it with a couple of flaps (four actually... not entirely certain that the two on the sides of the bag are necessary). Done! The lines leave the bag from the center of the pocket between the flaps, thus greatly reducing the chance of line twists and line dump. Stowing lines unevenly won't even be an issue, since they all run through the same "hole"."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blair700 0 #23 August 20, 2003 hhhmmmm, I see, are the 'flaps' velcro closed?? Sounds just like a tail pocket on the dbag. Maybe this is a trend of the future, or just history repeating itself, either way I like the idea, dbags scare me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #24 August 20, 2003 Quotehhhmmmm, I see, are the 'flaps' velcro closed?? Sounds just like a tail pocket on the dbag. Maybe this is a trend of the future, or just history repeating itself, either way I like the idea, dbags scare me I think i saw one of these bags when sunpath was up here, if it was the one i think it is, it is NOT velcrow there are flaps that fold down and another flap that folds up (in the opposite direction i think?) over the ones that folded down.. kinda hard to explain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base704 0 #25 August 20, 2003 Quotedbags scare me me too.You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
