Tonto 1 #1 May 8, 2003 I have one wingsuit jump. On a Classic 2. I plan to do about 10 more on this suit, and then buy a suit of my own. I know myself well, know what I like, and follow through on what I dream about. I know the classic 2 is recomended for beginners. I have some dives though, just short of 4000, and do around 400 a year. If I do 50 dives on the classic - who do I sell to? Should I really get a Classic 2, or are GTi and Skyflyer challenges within the grasp of a current, moderatly talented, experienced skydiver? Your thoughts please. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #2 May 8, 2003 From what you've told us and in my opinion, definitely consider the GTi as your minimum. I did one jump on Classic at jump 505 and then ordered a GTi. With your experience and currency you are probably more than capable of a Skyflyer, although a demo would be good first. There are people out there jumping SF3's with a 10th of your experience. How often will you be jumping it, who will you be jumping with, what will they be jumping, and how do your body sizes compare may all be pertinent questions, or you could just get a Skyflyer and fly dirty :-) As technologies advance, as with the SF3, is the SkyFlyer soon going to replace the GTi as the all-rounder? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 May 8, 2003 Looking at my 400 a year in slices - AFF, Tandem, FS, Freefly, CF... I'll probably get to do about 40 - 50 dives a year skyflying. Most of my dives will be alone, or with 1 or 2 other jumpers who are both more experienced skyflyers than I am. They will be jumping GTi's. At present the biggest flocking dive is a 9 way, but 4 were a LONG way off, 5 flying in about a 40 foot box. I'm pretty average bodysize. 5,11, 165 lbs, 41 years old, CI of my DZ. Thanks for your feedback. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #4 May 8, 2003 A "regular" SkyFlyer is definitely not a good choice as an "all around" suit in my opinion, especially for someone who isn't going to make a lot of wingsuit flights in a year. They can get very squirrely on you tense up and that is a very bad thing at pull time. A GTi is still a fine suit. They have much more performance potential than a Classic, but are much more forgiving of flailing pilots than a SkyFlyer. A SkyFlyer-3 is a brilliant suit for an advanced pilot. In my opinion it is the best of everything: it has incredible "pop", fantastic lift and speed when flown efficiently, and is actually more forgiving than a regular skyflyer. The wider leg stance makes it more stable. The only drawback, other than it's prohibitive initial cost, is that it takes very strong arms and shoulders to fly this suit. The wings are huge and they will wear you out very quickly if you are not in shape. My first flight was on a GTi and so my first suit purchase was a GTi. I now own a classic, a GTi, and an SF-3. I sold Lou Diamond my SkyFlyer after he got sufficiently good in the GTi. It's all about hooking a up! Check it! Chuckie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 May 8, 2003 Thanks for the feedback. I'll settle for the GTi, I think, after a few more jumps on the Classic 2. There are few skyflyers out here, and as its so small, there seems to be a huge spirt to want to help. Getting a GTi demo is no problem. I think with the limited amount of dives I plan a year there is still challenge aplenty. As for the SF, I'm not too afraid of the arm/shoulder workout as rock climbing is my "other" sport - so maybe one day I'll move up the Birdman food chain! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 May 8, 2003 Quote I sold Lou Diamond my SkyFlyer after he got sufficiently good in the GTi. It's all about hooking a up! TRUE DAT!! The GTI is a great "all around" suit but I had to have me a skyflyer so I could scald the dog Just trying to keep it real style"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #7 May 8, 2003 Hi Eric. My recommendation is the GTi. It has longer arm and leg wings than the Classic but is still very easy to fly and pull with. We sometimes even teach experienced jumpers (like you) the first wingsuit course with the GTi. But, the GTi is easier to fly and takes less practice to get good at than the Skyflyer or S3. The Skyflyer and S3 would be a big step up with out having much WS experience but this is not to say you would not be able to handle it. It's similar to going from a Stiletto to a smaller Velocity - much more performance and less room for error. I had about 2300 jumps when I started flying the Classic, did about 45 jumps on it and went right to the Skyflyer. The drawback is that I had to get used to a more sensitive pull with new techniques and I did not fly the Skyflyer very well for a while. It is a different suit - it's way more critical of having the proper body position. The Classic and GTi will still give you a good flight if you are not in an ideal body position. It took me about 10 jumps on my Skyflyer before I felt I could fly with other people and do well. The S3 has longer arm and leg wings than the Skyflyer but it also has a wider leg stance than the Skyflyer. I find the S3's wider leg stance much more comfortable than the Skyflyer but I definitely do not pull low since the arm wings are so long it may take a grab or two to get my hacky. I also really concentrate on arching to decrease the very fast forward speed before pulling. If you do go for the Skyflyer or S3, I'd be happy to share flying and pulling techniques. The Skylfyer and S3 are very sensitive suits that have long arm wings that, as I mentioned, sometimes flap over your hacky on the pull (but do not cover - you can always pull! - it just takes getting used to over 2-3 jumps), both turn quickly if given radical input, and both have bigger burbles so you may want to have a 100 inch/234cm bridle to get your PC away from the bad air (line twists are often caused by weak material in the PC or too short of a bridle). The Skyflyer and S3 are much faster forward, creating more lift, than the GTi. But, since this suit is meant to be high performance, it can also have some radical spins if you have a collision or get super funky in it. It's not a big deal, there is a technique to get out of it. I just want to make it clear that the S3 is not hard to fly for someone who has as many jumps as you (and as long as you feel comfortable in a wingsuit) but you will have to take it easy when learning to fly it and fly it with respect and be heads up if you would get in to a spin and be heads up enough to know not to do anything radical at a low altitude. Or, if you want a really fun toy that still rocks and is easy to learn to fly then you should chose the GTi. It's really personal preference. With your jumping experience, I think you could learn to fly the S3 easily (with a couple hints about best body position, how to safely pull, get out of a spin, etc) but do you want to put that effort in to it? Plust, if my memory serves me right, most of the SA birds have GTis - so you'll be matched with their suit type seeing that you have an average build. About 10-12 SA jumpers got suits last year (all GTis I think). There are a few with Skyflyers in SA though (off the top of my head) - Shawn Smith, Graham Hoal, and Tim Mace. Pls see your personal email, Eric, I sent you some other info there. ~Kim Griffin BirdMan Inc-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #8 May 8, 2003 dude i went from a classic 1 with maybe 40-50 jummps on it righ to the SF3... its alot more stable than the old skyflyer with it haveing the wider tail..... do it do a trickLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #9 May 8, 2003 Quote ... The only drawback, other than it's prohibitive initial cost, is that it takes very strong arms and shoulders to fly this suit. The wings are huge and they will wear you out very quickly if you are not in shape... after this deployment I hope to stay up with you on our next jump. Hope to get some pics and vidoe of other flyers to send to BM.. maybe your pic will be in another advertisment? Hope some other pilots start flying video and camera.. I wana see me in flight... Le RoyLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #10 May 9, 2003 I guess it's been said. Get the GTi for sure. It's a much "softer" suit. You can play in it all day, do a ton of aerobatics without batting an eye, and still keep up on flocking dives, which are usually mid 50s to mid 60s, anyway. The Skyflyer demands your total concentration and strength."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fergs 0 #11 May 9, 2003 Hey Tonto. I think it's all been said - especially Kim who gave a great description .... My wingsuit experience is much like most of the others who have responded. I bought my first wingsuit early this year and so far have around 60 or 70 jumps on it. It's a GTi and I love it. At the time I ordered it I was living in the Middle East, but am now back home in Australia. As there were no wingsuits in the area, I relied heavily on this forum site to evaluate meaning I had no-one to talk to or watch (thinking about it - the very first wingsuit I ever saw was mine when I took it out of the box) or ask which suit to buy. The GTi was a good choice for me. It's easy to fly and hasn't caused me any problems. Pull time is easy and predictible - I have a 100" bridle, incidentally. I pack with the deployment bag grommet against the rig's closing grommets and haven't had any twist experiences to speak of (one early opening gave me half a twist, which prompted me to change to the grommet to grommet method). I've loaned my suit twice. One guy, a very heads up and experienced jumper went into a spin immediately out the door - recovered with the butt to earth method (go find Rob Tonnesons post on this method elsewhere in this forum), straight back into a spin, recovered again and started flying finally. That made me now very conscious of the responsibility to loan only to heads up jumpers and always give a full briefing - especially flat spin recovery. At this stage I don't feel the need to graduate to a S3, but no doubt will at some time in the future. But from what I and all of us have read, the S3 needs prior wingsuit experience. You may indeed find it easy if you buy one up front - but I certailnly wouldn't advise chancing it - lest it bite you on the bum and destroy the flying-experience .... How's Jo'burg? I jumped there on a vacation years ago (1984) - most enjoyable. Decided Sth African jumpers are as crazy as Aussies. But I won all the after hours beer comps .... especially one down at Citrusdal .... the ppl there decided they should put the visiting antipodean under the table - no luck, I was last standing .... perhaps the boorovos (sp?) from the brai helped with my stamina? So go order a GTi - lets jump together some time!!!! Spread the love!!! fergbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 May 9, 2003 Hi Kim. I'd just like to thank you for the fantastic feedback. Nice to see the manufacturers getting involved and mixing it with their customers. I'll be jumping hard this weekend and will discuss things more with Tim Mace, and then be in touch after that - probably about a GTi if I can get one to demo. Thanks again for the help! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #13 May 9, 2003 jari put me on a skyflier for my first wingsuit jump (btw same jump i puut him on a prototype comp cobalt)...anyway i love the skyflier but the stress level in learning it and still flying is greater than the gti which i later tried. as an all around fun suit in retrospect i should have bought the gti. the skyflier has more wing surface area and due to the structure of a human body where you can support the wing area and where it aerodynamically should be due to your center of gravity are mismatched. i find my best fligt under a skyflier is when you are just short of loosing control. so i guess in short for your first suit if you want to aspire to the longest slowest flights and are ok with a higher stress factor get the flier. if you want to flock with other jumpers (skyfliers included) and just have fun with a lower stess factor get the gti. just my opinion... sincerely, dan preston atair aerodynamics www.extremefly.comDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
