Buckaroo 1 #1 September 2, 2003 I'm in the marked of buying my first rig.. Only got 30 jumps. Up till now I've mostly been jumping PD 9 cell 280 loaded 1:1 (yeah I'm a big gay 6"4), with about 400-500 jumps on it. My flaring teknique isn't superb, but most of my landings has been ok stand-up landings. Have done PLF when I've been uncertain. Have found the PD280 very boring to fly(pull a toggle all the way down, wait 1 second, and the thing slowly starts to turn). So I want a little more aggressiv chute, but not a radical one. Finding used gear in the right size isn't easy, so I am prepeared to at least buy a brad new main... Have been looking at a PD Navigator 240 and PD Sabre 2 230. The Navigator will I be loading about 1,05:1, and the Sabre 2 just under 1,1:1 (Have started training 5-6 times a week and lost 30 pounds of fat, and gained 10 pounds of mussle since I started jumping :) On a good day, no wind or just a litte, I could probably land a non-radical ZP 190 upwind just fine, but I feel that a chute at this size wouldn't be enough forgiving the day I fuck up and land downwind and "forget" to flare of whatever reason(someone cutting my off, etc)... How different would these 2 mains be in handling? By my understanding the Sabre 2 is more aggressive than the Navigator.. What do you recomend? And am I way of target here? (should I get something bigger?) ---- -Bent Jøran Ps...sorry for any mispelling, grammar and abuse of the english language Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #2 September 2, 2003 Standard Answer: Wingloading is only part of the equation. Canopy training can make a big difference. Ask your instructors (they've seen you fly a canopy) and try to downsize in steps. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #3 September 2, 2003 I'm a little confused about the wing loadng bit, how much do you weigh with your gear on? Above all of that, I think you will be more happy with a moderately loaded Sabre 2 than the Navigator. The Navigator is a fantasic canopy, but it is basically a student canopy. But most importantly, talk to your instructors. They are the ones who you should be taking advice from.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckaroo 1 #4 September 2, 2003 Today with all the gear I weigh approx. 255 pounds. Have talked to my instructors, have go om both canopies, its up to me. If I buy the Sabre 2 230 it will be hard to sell(when downsizing after ~200 jumps) because of the size. The Navigator I can easily sell as a student main to a clubb/dz whatever.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 September 2, 2003 Quote Up till now I've mostly been jumping PD 9 cell 280 loaded 1:1 So you're what, about 250 body weight? At that, assuming 20 pounds for gear, you'd be wingloading a 230 at about 1.17, a 260 at about 1.03. Quote My flaring teknique isn't superb I'd suggest staying closer to 1.0:1 until your flaring technique is perfect. Quote Have found the PD280 very boring to fly(pull a toggle all the way down, wait 1 second, and the thing slowly starts to turn). So I want a little more aggressiv chute, but not a radical one. Jump a Sabre2 260 a few times. The shaping and the fact that it's 20 sq ft smaller than what you've been jumping will make it turn faster and feel more aggressive. Quote On a good day, no wind or just a litte, I could probably land a non-radical ZP 190 upwind just fine, but I feel that a chute at this size wouldn't be enough forgiving the day I fuck up and land downwind and "forget" to flare of whatever reason(someone cutting my off, etc)... How will you handle it under a Sabre2 loaded at almost 1.2? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckaroo 1 #6 September 2, 2003 Quote Quote Up till now I've mostly been jumping PD 9 cell 280 loaded 1:1 So you're what, about 250 body weight? At that, assuming 20 pounds for gear, you'd be wingloading a 230 at about 1.17, a 260 at about 1.03. When I started jumping my bodyweight was 255. Currently my bodyweight is 230 pounds Quote My flaring teknique isn't superb I'd suggest staying closer to 1.0:1 until your flaring technique is perfect. When will my flaring-technique be perfect??Never.. It will get better, but perfect???? But I get your advise. Quote Have found the PD280 very boring to fly(pull a toggle all the way down, wait 1 second, and the thing slowly starts to turn). So I want a little more aggressiv chute, but not a radical one. Jump a Sabre2 260 a few times. The shaping and the fact that it's 20 sq ft smaller than what you've been jumping will make it turn faster and feel more aggressive. You mean I should go for the Sabre 2 260 instead of the 230 ? Quote On a good day, no wind or just a litte, I could probably land a non-radical ZP 190 upwind just fine, but I feel that a chute at this size wouldn't be enough forgiving the day I fuck up and land downwind and "forget" to flare of whatever reason(someone cutting my off, etc)... How will you handle it under a Sabre2 loaded at almost 1.2? ??????? What I meant here was that someone has recomended me a 190, but I will not go that small with my current experience... I have no wish of intentionally hurting myself badly. Would be much cheaper to climp up on the roof where I live and jump of While I under perfect condition probably could land a 190 without killing myself and walk away mostly unhurt, it would just be a matter of time before that would not be the case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #7 September 2, 2003 Quote When will my flaring-technique be perfect??Never.. It will get better, but perfect???? Okay, lemme restate. I'd suggest staying close to 1.0:1 until you can do everything on billvon's list - do a search, it's been posted repeatedly. Quote You mean I should go for the Sabre 2 260 instead of the 230 ? Call PD. Ask for Kolla. See if she has a Sabre2 260 demo available. If she does, ask her to send it to you. Jump it in one of your dz's rigs (ask first, but they should be willing to let you rent the rig without the PD280) for two weekends. Dump high and wring it out. Then send it back. Will cost you under $50. And if you take it up and really fly it you'll be amazed at what a canopy loaded at or close to 1.0 can do. Quote What I meant here was that someone has recomended me a 190 Please tell us that person isn't an instructor... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckaroo 1 #8 September 2, 2003 Quote Call PD. Ask for Kolla. See if she has a Sabre2 260 demo available. If she does, ask her to send it to you. Jump it in one of your dz's rigs (ask first, but they should be willing to let you rent the rig without the PD280) for two weekends. Dump high and wring it out. Then send it back. Will cost you under $50. And if you take it up and really fly it you'll be amazed at what a canopy loaded at or close to 1.0 can do. Will that work for me??(Ship abroad ?) (I live in Northern-Norway, not US) (at 70 degree north, where the weather now is a little shady. Snow in the Mountains above 500 meters, so the season could be cut short at any time!! Normally the snow doesn't com untill late september :) Quote What I meant here was that someone has recomended me a 190 Please tell us that person isn't an instructor... No he isn't... But I think he got some points right though(even he is taking it a bit extreme). Smaller chute got shorter lines => lesser drag=>more speed=>more flare. ZP is faster than F-111(or at least better glideangle) ZP vs. F-111 gives better flare, especially considering that the PD 280 got near 500 jumps on it and it isn't that much flaring left. What is worst loading a worn 280 f-111 at 1:1 or a new 240 ZP at 1,1:1? If you look at PD www I was loading the PD 280 at a ADV level(close to recomended maximum) from jump 1(came in on 30% brakes and did a PLF for first 3 jumps), but now I would be loading the 240 Navigator at a INT level 40 pounds below max load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
