when trusted riggers dissagree

[greybeard 0]

what to think when two or more trusted riggers dissagree?

so far, my skydiving career has been blessed with a multitude of and superior quality of, experienced and generous mentors. i've been able to trust and rely on all, mostly because the concencice of opinion always seem to track and validate each other.

now, i'm finding that my favorite riggers dissagree on packing techique, pilot chute size, briddle length, zp/f-111 hybred skins, line trim adjustments, container mods, link attachments, slidder size,.............and damn near everything else.

maybe this is all a part of growing up!

comments welcome.

greybeard.

[VectorBoy 0]

Anything related to wingsuits they disagree about?

[greybeard 0]

oh yea, like everything from riser flap closure, brake stow, bottom container flap cuttout, mudflap up/down configuration, reseve handle placment, hook knife and bridle location, bridle length, pilot size, line dump potential, rsl, cypres misfire, and it goes on and on.

[michaelflying 0]

mankind was born to disagree with each other. You have to major on the major and minor on the minor. If it is dangerous the get more opinions.

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[bmcd308 0]

That's why there is a "Poll" feature on dz.com.

When you are not sure about something, you can ask the consensus opinion of a group of people whom you do not know, who do not know you, the relevance of whose advice is highly suspect. Ain't life grand?

Let us decide!

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[rigging65 0]

Keep in mind, riggers are just people with more experience than most. They still have opinions (not all of which are totally fact based) and biases.

Many riggers like certain setups because that's what they were taught on, or that's what they see the most of. Some of them are tainted by the fact that they have certain mfgs. close to them and have more interaction with those mfgs. With this in mind, gear Mfgs. have their own opinions as well (Sunpath and their F1-11 pilot chutes, etc.)...so if you hang out in their circles, you'll probably be converted to that way of thinking.

IMO, the best test of what works is what keeps selling. The market won't support junk...it may support products that aren't quite as good as other products (if there is good advertising), but it won't support junk...at least not for long.

So, if your riggers disagree, it could be for numerous reasons. And that's ok! Gather all the info you can, then make your own decisions.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Ron 10]

Quote

Keep in mind, riggers are just people with more experience than most. They still have opinions (not all of
which are totally fact based) and biases.

Many riggers like certain setups because that's what they were taught on, or that's what they see the
most of. Some of them are tainted by the fact that they have certain mfgs. close to them and have more
interaction with those mfgs. With this in mind, gear Mfgs. have their own opinions as well (Sunpath and
their F1-11 pilot chutes, etc.)...so if you hang out in their circles, you'll probably be converted to that way
of thinking.

IMO, the best test of what works is what keeps selling. The market won't support junk...it may support
products that aren't quite as good as other products (if there is good advertising), but it won't support
junk...at least not for long.

So, if your riggers disagree, it could be for numerous reasons. And that's ok! Gather all the info you can,
then make your own decisions.

All that he said, and don't be the first on the block with the new toy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[hookitt 1]

Dude, I totally disagree...

New Toys aren't always a bad thing either.
===

Adding: Often I've had conversations with riggers about their methods versus mine. Sometimes to trade info and sometimes not.

I've spoken with some that are very talented but choose not to keep up with the times. In other words, an "If it worked 10 years ago, it will work now" type of attitude.

They aren't necessarily wrong; it's just behind with using the newer technologies.

As an avid freeflier and AFF instructor, I feel there's no choice but to ensure a rig is worthy of what the user is going to put it through. In other words, if I wouldn't feel confident with it on my own back I'd have to disagree with another rigger who says it's fine...

I hope that helps.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[councilman24 37]

Reasonable people can disagree on all most anything. There are many definately BAD things to do that people can agree on. (Leaving a temporary pin or pull up cord in.) But everyone has a different BEST way. When someone offers an opinion ask why the have that opinion. Many are based on regional or DZ biases, training biases, even personalality biases. Others may be more reasoned. I try to have reasoned opinions and offer the explination and both sides of the argument. But, there are some assholes that just don't deserve respect, in all phases of the sport; instructors, riggers, manufacturers, board members, etc. When you hear a manufacturer stand up in a public forum and say everyone rigs are "death rigs" except his and walk out, it's hard to have much respect. Long term PIA symposium attendees may recongize that incident. Listen to the reasons, not just the opinions, and when people you trust disagree do you best to understand the reasons and make your own decision. And keep learning. I know I am.

Terry

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 3,107]

>oh yea, like everything from riser flap closure, brake stow, bottom
> container flap cuttout, mudflap up/down configuration, reseve
> handle placment, hook knife and bridle location, bridle length, pilot
> size, line dump potential, rsl, cypres misfire, and it goes on and on.

Heck, I haven't even found two BM-I's that agree on that stuff yet.

[hookitt 1]

Quote

When you hear a manufacturer stand up in a public forum and say everyone rigs are "death rigs" except his and walk out, it's hard to have much respect.

Is there an example of this you can link too?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[councilman24 37]

You had to be there in person. But I can think of three or four similar public pronouncments over the years.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[AndyMan 7]

Jeeeze.. have some courage!

I'm reminded of a civil suit for libel against Dan Preston of Atair, concerning comments he made about the Icarus Crossfire.

The lawsuite didn't go anywhere, but if somebody had made similar comments against a product I was making, I'd probably sue, too.

I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out what the comments actually were.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mjosparky 4]

That is probably the best advise posted on the subject yet.

Quote

When someone offers an opinion ask why the have that opinion.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

• Quote

[rgoper 0]

thus my reasoning for sending my rig to the same rigger, even if the rigger is out of state. this rigger "knows what time it is" i've tried, but i cannot jump my rig, unless i know this particular rigger has inspected my rig and re-packed my reserve. handicapped jumper you say? i don't care, vanity is long passed me now, life longevity is my goal, i know i'm mortal.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

what to think when two or more trusted riggers disagree?

I think you'll find that the riggers may disagree on some issues, but they probably don't think that the other way is bad, just their way is 'better'.

Not everyone agrees with all of my "Derek's Gear Tips", which is OK. I wouldn't except everyone to agree. Different environments experiences, gear, techniques, styles, etc all affect opinions.

Some riggers finger-trap the excess steering line on reserves, some don't. The advantage is it is cleaner, the disadvantage is that it shortens the lower control line a little. Is one way better than the other. If it is, not by much. So even if two very experienced riggers do it differently, it doesn't really matter.

Lastly, riggers will tend to argue points like finger trapping the excess steering line on reserves..........for hours.. Riggers tend to be perfectionist, which is good, but can result in almost meaningless debates and minor differences of opinion, which is super-boring to anyone but riggers.

I wouldn't worry too much if two riggers disagree, I would take advantage of it. Listen to their opinions and reasoning for those opinions. That arms you with the knowledge to make an educated decision of what is best for you.

Derek

[mjosparky 4]

Hey, I resemble that remark.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[nightjumps 1]

Don't take these disagreements as whether one is wrong and one is right. Its more about preferences or technique than right and wrong.

Just as computer geeks have male hormonic displays of chest-thumping bona-fide sessions about more or less RAM, or processors, or weapons experts pary and thrust about which hand gun is better...

In the end its what works best for you and them. Its about difference, not wrong. For example, there's about fifty different ways to pack a pilot chute... all of them work, its just which one do I like better.

Let them have their chest-thumping session and take it for the cultural theme it is.