Getting Sarted...

[Widgeon 0]

I just got my A license and want to learn to freefly. I've made a small number of jumps experimenting with sitflying, but they didn't come off too well. I've been told I should start out flying on my back and work into sit slowly. What do you think?

[AggieDave 6]

I think I should ask to make sure sure that your gear is FF safe. That's the first step.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Widgeon 0]

I think it'll be alright. My container is a Dolphin and know it's not the best rig to freefly, but I just had new bridle velcro installed and I had the full riser cover tuck tabs done. My rigger looked at it and said I would just need to be extra careful but should be OK. I've got a Mirage on the way but I'm stuck with the Dolphin for next month or two.

[AggieDave 6]

Well, a premie can hurt you, it can hurt you badly, it can actually kill you and anyone that might be (wrongly) above you.

I understand your position, I was there before I bought my Wings. I was freeflying with non-freefly friendly gear. It was definately NOT smart and I think overall I was really lucky.

If you choose to push it and FF on your rig, well, be careful and I hope nothing happens.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Mixoligist 0]

Step 1- Coaching

..................................
Better you than me
..................................

[fatflying 0]

hey Mike, Like most people your starting to run before you can walk. RELAX, enjoy this time learning, you know that belly flying stuff it pays off later. IT PAYS TO BE PASSIVE.

You know that old saying
hey lets run down and fuck one of those bulls.
No lets walk down and fuck um all.
RELAX YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO LEARN. You might only get to learn a bad lesson once.
Oh yea. coaching,coaching,coaching fatones

[likearock 2]

I agree. Take advantage of the time you have until the Mirage comes to hone your belly skills. They're useful. Once you start freeflying, you may never take the time to do that!

Wayne

[Widgeon 0]

I get the drift from you all that I should work into this stuff gradually, but when I do get started, where do I start? TJ was at my home DZ a few weeks back and although I did not get in a coach jump with him, I got to talk to him before going up and he did say backflying will help beginners work into sitting. I'm not doing any two ways and I was just wondering what to try for a few solos.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I get the drift from you all that I should work into this stuff gradually, but when I do get started, where do I start?

You missed the point guy. I'm not trying to be an ass, none of us are, we're trying to really help you out here.

The point is dolphins are really NOT freefly safe by any definition, since you have a new rig on the way anyways, why not take this time to dial in some RW skills. The added experience will help you with your freefly progression later.

I'm not a RW guy, I'm a FFer, but I'm still recommending what I recommend.


Do me a favor, take your rig to the S&TA and ask him/her if they think its freefly safe. Email some of the top coaches and ask them as well. As the good freefliers at your DZ if they think the rig is FF safe.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Widgeon 0]

I checked with my rigger/DZO, and our S&TA, and they were the ones that told me because this rig is in mint condition, it does meet the minimum requirements to be OK to do some freeflying, but, I would need to be extra careful and I could only do two ways with a FF coach or an instructor. I get the point and I'm not trying to be an ass either, but I can imagine alot of you out there have been in my situatuion and were as eager to learn as me, but not to the point where I'm putting my self at too much risk, or anyone else in the air with me. I was just wondering where to start.

[ZoneRat 0]

Quote

.... I would just need to be extra careful but should be OK.

For this and future reference:

Any time you hear or think that phrase a big ass warning flag should go up, man.

Hey. It's just a couple months.

Just so you know: No belly skills means no sunset formation load, being crappy on hoop dives, raft dives, scr attempts, etc. Maybe none of these things appeal to ya, but you can cut yourself out of a lot of fun if you don't have half decent belly skills.

When you first start into the sport, I dunno, it seems like every new skydiver has to iron out a few wrinkles. Goofy things happen now and again for a while. Funneled exits, line twists because the deployment position may not be exactly perfect yet, troubled landings, ya accidently pull a little low, whacking someone during break-off, minor packing malfunctions here and there... your general awareness isn't what it will be and that can cause some odd things to happen.... whatever. Just... little things that will work their way out as you become more seasoned.

It makes sense that while these various little events are goin' on, you stick to a discipline you already kinda know.

Just a thought.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[Snowflake 0]

Quote

I just got my A license and want to learn to freefly. I've made a small number of jumps experimenting with sitflying, but they didn't come off too well. I've been told I should start out flying on my back and work into sit slowly. What do you think?

My .02 since Rob asked. Assuming freefly friendly gear. I would suggest going out in a sit (it's the easiest time to hold it in the beggining) as you get to terminal you'll probably go unstable no worries just try to fall backwards on to your back if you start spinning on your back try to counter it if you can't go to belly get stable and try to go to a sit or flip to your back and then try for the sit whatever your more comfortabe with. Try to stay of your belly. This doesn't mean if it goes to shit you can't go to your belly, it's just a good habit to get into so when you start jumping with others you won't cork on them. Try to keep everything at 90 degrees from the knee down 90 from knee up which is 90 from the torso armst at shoulder height bent 90 at the elbow (don't worry to much about body position at first get stable first then work on it). As far as starting on your back then going to sit that works great too ( I actually spent a lot of time on my back learning to sit so I kinda think it's six of one a half dozen of the other) Hope I didn't muddy the waters too much for ya

PS After you get stable for a few jumps find a coach or a good FF'er to go out with ya until then it's solos

[fuga 0]

Get coaching, we can all try and give you tips but theres no substitute for coaching or even talking to a coach at your dz.

I think its a great idea to spend some time on your back before you even attempt headup flying. Get comfortable on your back, arms level with your head (no lower than your shoulders) with your palms facing the sky, legs tucked in a little, always making sure you keep your back as straight as you can with it parallel to the ground. Experiment balling up (make sure you are always aware of your altitude) and spreading out. This is for speeding up and slowing down on your back, you will find this very useful in the future as 1) it is your recovery position so you dont cork and 2) you can use it to get back up to a group of people if you have sunk out on them.

Once you are happy on your back and have experimented with it a little its then time to start to get upright. From a backfly position, in one smooth motion, tilt your headback and push your chest up a little, at the same time push down with your legs, once you are upright keep everything at 90* and put some effort into your legs (you will it difficult, at first, to keep your legs pushed down). This should feel like the point between sitting in a chair and standing up, as if you are just getting up from a chair. The legs are the most important thing, keep them strong and make sure there is no air pushing on your calves or shins, your lower leg must be pushing directly into the wind. Keep your feet flat, your chest upright and always have your head looking straight forward at the horizon, do not be tempted to try and look at your body position.

When first starting, try to wear something baggy (not tooo baggy) on your upper body and something tighter on your legs. Once you have a feel for the position, start to wear a normal freefly suit. You will find it harder as you get more drag on your legs.

To practice on the ground, find a flat wall. Put your back up against the wall, keeping it as flat as possible, everything from your lower back, shoulder blades and head should be touching the wall. Move your arms up so they are level with your shoulders, touch the wall with your elbows and move your hands forward so there is a 90* bend at the elbows (you should be able to see your hands in your peripheral vision. Bend your legs to 90*, have your feet flat on the ground and your shins should be perfectly striaght up so they are perpendicular to the floor. Try to hold this for 1 minute while conecntrating on how your body feels, moving from the toes up. Have a rest and then try again, do this a few times a day and you will have the strength in your legs that you need.

Once you can keep stable in this headup position, try pumping your legs down one at a time, like you are walking up the stairs, this will also help the strength in your legs and also help improve your balance.

Common problems:
falling onto your back - Keep your legs strong (you have to really conentrate on this at first), your arms could be too far forward so try moving your hands more inline with your shoulders, you could also be leaning forward so concentrate on keeping your head up and your chest straight (imagine a puppet with a piece of string in the center at the top of its head, the string is being pulled up so everything is straight, imagine the puppet is you)

falling onto your belly - you may have your lower leg bent backwards so the air is on your shins, be strong with your legs, if you still have problems try tying a short pullup to your shoe laces, glance down in freefall (do not move your head, just look with your eyes), if the pullup is hitting your shins then your legs are too far back, if it is away from your legs then they are too far forward, you should aim to have the pullup parallel to your shins

spinning and then spinning on your back - go back to practicing on the ground, somewhere your body position isnt symetrical, make sure everything is the same on both sides of your body, practice it on the ground and then take it to the air concentrating on symmetry, another important thing that can help this is to relax, take a deep breath before you exit and do not rush yourself, take your time.

Hope that helps, feel free to ask any questions

.

[Zoter 0]

Quote

My rigger looked at it and said I would just need to be extra careful but should be OK

Be careful....a statement like that from somebody qualified should really be taken as ...its not really the right equipment for the job !!
Bear in mind whilst learning you are likely to do some pretty radical manouvres as you fall onto and off stability.....that in hand with a rig that 'might' be freefly friendly is not a good combination...

I very recently had a prem.deployment on a freefly 'safe' rig whilst not doing anything radical...it can and does happen.

That all aside I recently did some tunnel time ...I can comfortably fly in a sit and in a stand in the sky but as part of the process you have to learn to fly on your back first (in the tunnel)...I was frankly shocked at just how bad I was on my back and im my opinion should definately be the first position to learn to fly well.....you will thank yourself down the line for learning this position first for sure.....

Edited to add:
why dont you do some tunnel time as well.......in that way you can get the basics of freeflying down in a safe enviroment until you get your mirage and then take it to the sky.....
Or even better speak to Tom Lundergan at Quincy ( school of Human flight).....I was lucky enough to do some jumps with him at Perris and he is a great flyer and super nice guy to be around.....I'm sure he will inspire you and get you on 'the' path safely

[LoudDan 0]

I gotta agree with Dave (again, kinda scary), develope your situational awarenes, and basic skills on your belly at least until your new rig gets here. Go out on some two and three way belly jumps, know where everyone on the dive is for the entire dive, practice breakoff skills (180 turn and then tracking), and practice tracking. Be honest with yourself. These are all skills that translate directly to freeflying. Think of them as survival tools. Just my two cents. Be safe, and remember the better you learn to skydive, the more skydives you can make.

I can honestly say that I wish I would have spent more time on my belly instead of going straight to freeflying. When I wanted to get my coaches rating, I wound up shelling out some serious coin for belly coaching.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[skynole 0]

Mike - We'll do a couple of jumps this weekend and I'll help you out as much as I can.

[McDuck 0]

Quote

My rigger looked at it and said I would just need to be extra careful but should be OK.

Not to continue flogging this rotting horse carcass here, but it might help to relate what happened to me and my old "should be okay" maybe-kinda-sorta FF rig.

I ignored the warnings, subtle though they were (like you've been getting), and wound up nearly getting myself and another jumper hurt badly. I had a preemie in a sit, and I'm a big guy. The two seconds from the time my D bag slapped me in the ear the first time until the second time it hit me and I turned to look, my FF partner had to haul ass away from me in head down and very narrowly escaped being engulfed by my rapidly deploying canopy.

The opening was so hard that I saw nothing but "stars" for about 5-10 seconds. People on the ground heard the opening and thought it was thunder. I'm lucky I only had two tiny holes in my brand-new canopy and some stressing of the attach points on the tail, instead of a blown canopy.

As I tried to set up for the approach, I was hurting so bad that all I could do was flare just enough to not to kill myself on impact.

Looking back, I should have waited until I had something that was FF friendly. There was certainly more at stake than just my life.

Just something to ponder.

Edited for spelling.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Widgeon 0]

I had almost given up on this thread...thank you all for both the advice and your concern. I hope I didn't come off as a smart ass, but I just wanted to have an idea of what to do when I was ready. I'm looking forward to this weekend, Brian- thanks alot. Hopefully, I'll get the chance to jump with some of you sometime...

• Quote

[AggieDave 6]

No worries guy, I understand, I was you when I had 50 jumps. I would love to see you start to FF, but I want to see you be safe.

I also know that I wish I would have learned some RW skills before going to FF, it would have helped me out a LOT a couple hundred jumps after that.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."