Average Freeflying Speeds. Determinative?

[Vertifly 0]

A question came to mind today following a fun jump with some people at the DZ. (all names are hidden to protect the innocent - LOL).
We set up a base sit flyer for the whole dive with some people docking in head down and in the sit position. A round would have been ideal, but it only built with one stinger. Two people had difficulty making it to the formation and later stated that the sit-flyer was too fast. Average speed on the jump was 165mph. The base may have been moving on the vertical plane during part of the jump; this may have contributed to the illusion of being fast.

165mph sounds like a good number for a general freefly speed (whether head-down or sitting). But should it vary between head down and sit or should we assume that head down is a faster position than sitting? I have always thought that both positions demand similar velocity because of the diversity of positions that can be on one dive.

So what do you think...

Should head down and sit be the same speed?

Or are they assumed to be different considering the aerodynamics?

And...if there is such a thing, what do you think "The Average Freefly Speed" should be?

[ccowden 0]

Absolutely- without question, if you are doing a multi-position dive where some are sit and some head, the speeds should be the same. By that I mean the head down guys aren't trying to go the sit speed or vice versa.

A proper sit should be comparable to the speed of head down. When people learn a sit it tends to be slow because they are flying a "sit" position. Flying on your feet is slightly different in that it you need to be able to fly with people on their heads and not just sit and let people come to you. A proper head up position should actually look very similar to an inverted head down. A sit position will look quite different. Follow?

In my opinion, a sit is one thing and flying on your feet is another thing entirely. Whether you are flying on your feet or on your head, the speeds should be the same. A true sit-fly position will be slightly slower.

[ccowden 0]

Oh, and I tend to think the "average" freefly speed would be more like 155. But that's just my opinion.

[brits17 0]

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Oh, and I tend to think the "average" freefly speed would be more like 155. But that's just my opinion.

Agreed.

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[Vertifly 0]

hmmm... that actually sounds a bit slow for my taste. Of it is turns out to be the majority opinion then color me surprized. I don't know a lot of people who fly less than 160mph, consistently, in head-down.

Has anyone else tracked their average terminal in freefly?

[hookitt 1]

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I don't know a lot of people who fly less than 160mph, consistently, in head-down

I'd say consistantly head down, yes I agree with 160 ish +

Add transitions carving, over unders and such to the mix, and the average speed goes down quite a bit.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 1]

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And...if there is such a thing, what do you think "The Average Freefly Speed" should be?

Comfortable and maneuverable is a good average. I realize that’s vague but when I jump with a light experienced flyer, our comfort range can be pretty slow. Flying with a heavier faller, I prefer to let the person fly relaxed. The speed may increase 10 MPH but if the position is comfortable and maneuverable, it's just right.

I have a ball that, if I remember correctly, falls at about 160 MPH. It’s comfortable to fly with but it seems that the position I fly in is quicker with the ball, than with most of the folks I jump with.

So the short answer is… I don’t know

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[AggieDave 6]

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Has anyone else tracked their average terminal in freefly

I have, sortof. In a sit I *can* fly in the 140s, but relaxed I'm 160-ish. I can easily bomb that up much faster, though.

In my lame excuse for a headdown, I average around 185-200...well, I just suck at headdown, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ccowden 0]

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hmmm... that actually sounds a bit slow for my taste. Of it is turns out to be the majority opinion then color me surprized. I don't know a lot of people who fly less than 160mph, consistently, in head-down.

When everyone is on their head and working together, the speeds tend to pick up quite a bit. Two-way head downs can really get smokin'. But when you have a mix, the speeds need to be on the lower end for it to be comfortable for the majority. This speed is what I was calling the "average". However, if you truly took an average speed over many freefly jumps of different types, you would probably see that number go up a good deal.

So- Here is my worthless opinion:

If you took 100 freefliers of all skill levels and needed and "average" speed to make the majority comfortable, I would say about 155.

If you took 100 freefliers who were all very skilled at flying head up and head down and averaged their speeds over a number of different style jumps, I would say you would get something more like 160-170.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[koz2000 1]

So are you talking about "Skydiver air speed" or "Ture Air Speed?" (on the pro-track) They seem to always be about 10mph apart. This might be a factor in the speed differences. Also if you wear it in your jumpsuit, you'll get a more accurate reading.

however I do agree that somewhere between 155 & 165 is a good speed

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- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[sunnydee123 0]

Sitting back and listening patiently and FINALLY ~ glad to hear that my head down speeds (and I'm still new at it), averaging around 167ish are not all that far off from what MIGHT be considered the norm ..................A little more and I'll be able to fly with the best of them

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[Brains 2]

Hey Denise, anyway you could find out what some of the averages were for the 42 way?? According to ccowden, that would be a good average, lots of peeps, world class, all on their head. If that doesn't present a pretty good "average" i don't know what will. I would be curious anyway.

Or, is it like a flat formation, the larger it is, the slower?? Hmmm, no i am really interested.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[brits17 0]

I like the comments posted thus far. I have to agree it depends on what type of skydive is in the mix. Seeing the HD Texas record attempts, many of the guys were down to t-shirts and FF pants, the average was 165-170 on this particular day. I was thinking of a jump with flippy doo's and such integrated, so that slows the average rate down by roughly 10 mph I would assume. The ball I jumped falls 155. Perfectly comfortable for me, but I suppose I'm a wee one. However, the same one has been jumped by several other FF'ers with no complaints.

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[skyjuggler 0]

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Or, is it like a flat formation, the larger it is, the slower??

As formations become bigger they slow down5{y and the other large formations were packing the base with the big guys.

As more people are added to formations the slower the fall rate becomes.

To answer the original post, I reckon 150-160mph is a good speed for head up and head down work.

[ccowden 0]

I guess I am talking about Skydivers Airspeed, but I am just taking educated guesses and really don't have much to back it up with except 'what I think'.

What I do KNOW is that when I read an average speed of near 180 on the Pro Track, it is uncomfortably fast. And when I read an average speed of down around 145, it starts to get uncomfortably slow. By uncomfortable I mean where I don't feel like I have all the range in movement that I would like because I am trying so hard to stay at that speed.

Screw this- Let's just go swoop!

[Brains 2]

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Screw this- Let's just go swoop!

Best idea yet.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[sunnydee123 0]

How about I go home and raid the helmet to view the Pro-Trak that flew in the base of that 42-way ...I'll see what kinda speeds we are talking but I heard "chit chat" thanking people for keeping it fast

Will report back tomorrow....

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[Trent 0]

With my teammates, we typically fly in the 145-150 range... sit or head down. We fly the same speed pretty much all the time, unless we're going flat or purposely slowing down.

The bigways in Perris had a purposely FAST fallrate, for a couple of reasons. It's easier to fly only legs when you're cruising at 165 or so. It also almost eliminates the possibility of going low. Faster fallrates on bigways give us more airflow to work with which helps stability.

All these speeds are from my pro-track in TAS.

Oh, hello again!

[jdhill 0]

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145-150 range

Unless you let stevie set the fall rate...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Trent 0]

Yeah, he's a floaty beeeotch. Skinny bastard!

Oh, hello again!

[Cornholio 0]

Is it tomorrow yet ??

Enquiring minds would like to know.. hehe

Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast!
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool!
bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump

[Vertifly 0]

Damn, you're really holding Sunnydee to her word. Way to keep at 'em.