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WrongWay

Yet another head down question...fall rate with arms?

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Okay, I have a good one. ;) I had the idea that flying with your arms was bad, so I just kinda relax my arms, let'em hang at my side, and when I want to bring them up to do something, I do, no prob. The problem is, now I have to stress my legs to get slower to fly with the sitters. Now even though I know you're not supposed to fly with your hands, I see all the pros with hands way out, and though I know they're not "flying" with them, I have a feeling (and I've been told) that it's to control fall rate. If you're using your hands for fall rate, what would you do for docks without speeding up? Also, wouldn't flying with your arms put your legs in just a little bit of burble, taking away some control? It just doesn't make sense to me, and I want some advice!! HIT ME!! B|

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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I guess the answer would partly depend on what kind of dive you were doing.

Mostly, try more drag to expand your range if you need both wings maxed out to maintain a fallrate. (There is a sweet spot here, though - a point of diminishing return - more drag, more muscle)

Also, make sure you really are maxing out your legs before you resort to your arms - sometimes it feels like you're doing the splits when you're not. And as the day goes on and you get fatigued - even less so. If that's the case, try going from legs out to daffy to give those muscles a rest during the dive. (If you're on a big-way, just be sure you can do so without losing balance)

As for the burble thing - if you're in a perfect 'X', I guess you'll get a burble that only your feet will extend through. But I think it's pretty hard to actually fly like that. There's usually a bit of daffy or bent knee or arms slightly off-set...

(Coincidentally, I was working on fallrate and taking low-docks over the past few weekends):)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

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I had the idea that flying with your arms was bad, so I just kinda relax my arms, let'em hang at my side



That thing about flying with your arms being bad... Get that silly notion out of your head. I haven't a clue where all that started. Sure more energy from the legs should be used but Use your arms. You have wings my friend, Use them.

These pros you speak of still use arms, hands, feet, every thing. As you progress, your legs will begin to take over more of the flying. But your hands will always be useful.

A simple excersize:
Stay squared off with some one. Place one hand way out in front of you with out turning your shoulders. It's easier to control if you have your palm toward the ground. You'll have all that surface area to work with.

If you keep your shoulders squared off, you'll be forced to compensate some how with your legs. Put your arm back and do it with the other arm.

Stay squared off. If you turn your body to take a dock, it's usually because your balancing on your shoulders. So keep that in mind.

It takes a while to transfer most of your flying energy to your legs, but please... don't be afraid to use your arms. Forget about the Burble thing for now too.

One skydive at a time... Enjoy.

Tim
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Thanks for the advice ;), but I was always under the impression that you should be able to wave your arms all over the place and move your shoulders and do whatever with them, and stay still just with your legs, and I can do that, no prob, I was just wondering why, if you need to be able to do that, you should still fly with your arms?

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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I can move my arms all about too and chase people around doing it.

When you move your arms about it's just an excersize to learn how to transfer more power to your legs. Have someone sit very still at an average fall rate and then Move your arms all over the place. You'll see very quickly how much your arms come into play.

Even clapping your hands way out in front of you over and over very slowly, you'll be flying on your arms.

You need em, so use em. They way you use them will change. It often appears that I don't use mine but I can assure you I do.

Most of my power is in my legs. Arms are very useful. Soon you'll be the one chasing newbie freefliers around and you'll be quick to notice how much arms come into play.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I kinda see what you mean. Like I said, I can move everything around in front of a person and not move, but it's weird to fly with surfaces you're supposed to be able to throw everywhere if need be. Do you use them for fall rate??

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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I think it's a matter of semantics here.

You fly your whole body - including your arms. You just shouldn't have to rely.

Headdown students are taught to not get into that habit - usually by trying not to use them for balance and fall rate - it just establishes a better use of the legs and hips and thus more control.

I've seen Hookit's mad flying style, he's a good source of info.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

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Sometimes as in when doing a three way freefly with 2 head downers (including me) and a sitflyer, or sometimes as in stinging a slow hybrid???? B| My issue here is, if I use my arms for fall rate, then taking away one wing for a dock would be bad cuz it'd cause me to speed up, right??

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

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My issue here is, if I use my arms for fall rate, then taking away one wing for a dock would be bad cuz it'd cause me to speed up, right??



An arm out at full extension in front of you has the same amount of drag as it does straight out sideways.

At some point ya - just - gotta - put on a bigger suit.:P
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Hi!

I'll let someone else (hopefully a coach or a very experienced freeflyer) suggest drills for you but I wanted to stress - to you and anyone else reading - that working on head down skills, especially ones with a high potential of corking, should be done solo or with a coach or a very experienced freeflyer.

Please consider getting even just a few coached jumps when learning a new orientation or even a new skill - it's worth it on every level. You have a coach who can break down the drill for you, he can evaluate your ability one on one, there's video for you to study and he can get the hell out of your way if something goes wrong. ;)

Especially when working on fallrate, you need a base - don't put your buddies at risk by expecting them to be able to dodge a highspeed cork.

:)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

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Oh dont worry, I dont do things im not comfortable with unless im on a solo dive. i have taken quite a few coach jumps but i was just looking for other ideas besides what my coach had suggested (not to say he is not right, Im just looking for other ideas). Thanks.

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Take a Bandana in the air with you. Get in a head down and carefully pass it from hand to hand.

In front of you at differen levels and arm extension
around the back of your head
above your head (below actually since your melon will be closer to the ground),
between your legs
around your back (hard to reach so figure it out)

If you pick up too much speed, transition slow down and start over.

The objective is to continue falling straight down on heading with out traveling toward the ground at Mach 16.

Have fun.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Free flying = Flying your whole body! :)
Every square inch of your body and clothing is a control surface in this game... if you fly up to someone dock on 'em, then fly away, all of your own accord, then whose gonna tell you you're doing it wrong? I'm not sure there are two peeps out there who fly exactly the same.



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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