SIM 2011 Questions

[Jockeyshifter63 0]

I recently took my "B" test. I passed but was not very impressed with my score especially since I thought I had really studied the SIM. I am now re-studying the manual on those weekends the weather is too nasty to jump, and now I have a few questions. I will ask one at a time.

In Section 5-3, M, 3 -Maintenance and repair of the main: The main parachute and it's container need not be maintained as "approved".

Everything in the part "M" makes sense to me except this statement. Maybe I am just being dense but could anyone explain this to me?

[NWFlyer 2]

It's easier to understand in contrast to the statements on maintenance of the reserve in the previous section:

Quote

2. Maintenance and repair of the reserve:

a. The FAA requires the entire reserve assembly to be maintained as an approved parachute.

b. Repairs to the reserve assembly must be done by an FAA-certificated parachute rigger.

Essentially, the section you quoted is saying that there are no federal regulations that require any particular maintenance on your main. Of course, maintenance is still an excellent idea, but you can jump a ripped up bed sheet and call it a main parachute and the feds aren't going to have anything to say about it.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Jockeyshifter63 0]

OK got that thanks. I was trying to make it more complicated. So here is my next question. In Section 5-4, B, 2b the discussion is the Ground Crew Briefing and the "jump order". In a search of the forums I found a thread from 2004 with this:

"Generally speaking, the usual accepted order of exiting aircrafts is as follows:
1. Hop and pops (low exit)
2. RW big to small
3. FF big to small
4. Students(Coach then AFF)
5. Tandems
6. Wingsuits
7. CReW"

In the following discussion there was the suggestion that wingsuits and crew switch order. Is this sequence still valid in 2011? We usually have a load organizer on weekends but not weekdays so I would like to have a better idea of accepted jump order.

Thanks in advance.

[dragon2 2]

Quote

1. Hop and pops (low exit)
2. RW big to small65
3. FF big to small
4. Students(Coach then AFF)
5. Tandems
6. Wingsuits
7. CReW"

CRW usually exits either first or last, this depends on the wind at the time. So, roughly, CRW goes before RW groups in very light winds, and last out in higher winds.

Usually wingsuits will go 2nd last if there's CRW on the load, but as long as the spot is OK, CRW could go before wingsuit as well without any safety issues - aside from exiting wingsuiters diving at the CRW formation

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[matthewcline 0]

You would put wing suits out before high opening AFFs and Tandems and have them converge at opening?

What am I missing here?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[dragon2 2]

Quote

You would put wing suits out before high opening AFFs and Tandems and have them converge at opening?

What am I missing here?

Matt

Not sure where you got that idea. I'm not putting winguits out before AFF/tandems, that's a bad idea all round. Rather I might put wingsuiters out before or after CRW, so both these groups are the last 2 groups out, in whatever order they prefer.

Edit:

Our standard exit order:

1) FS big to small
2) FF big to small
3) solo jumpers (meaning student-type canopies)
4) AFF
5) tandem
6) wingsuit

CRW is not listed as they could go as number 0.5, number 5.5 or number 7 We found that if we listed them as number 7, people got upset when they wanted to exit somewhere else in the lineup. So we let them figure it out themselves now

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[matthewcline 0]

Yeah, I reread your previous post and see I misunderstood the "second last" part.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Bertt 0]

from Federal Aviation Regulations part 105:
§ 105.3 Definitions.

For the purposes of this part—

Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C–23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number.

Reserve parachutes and pilot emergency rigs are "approved". Main parachutes are not.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[jurgencamps 0]

Quote

Quote

1. Hop and pops (low exit)
2. RW big to small65
3. FF big to small
4. Students(Coach then AFF)
5. Tandems
6. Wingsuits
7. CReW"

CRW usually exits either first or last, this depends on the wind at the time. So, roughly, CRW goes before RW groups in very light winds, and last out in higher winds.

Usually wingsuits will go 2nd last if there's CRW on the load, but as long as the spot is OK, CRW could go before wingsuit as well without any safety issues - aside from exiting wingsuiters diving at the CRW formation

I would prefer wingsuits after CRW. But the CRW-dogs I know go out way before the others, even downwind of the DZ.

[Hellis 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

1. Hop and pops (low exit)
2. RW big to small65
3. FF big to small
4. Students(Coach then AFF)
5. Tandems
6. Wingsuits
7. CReW"

CRW usually exits either first or last, this depends on the wind at the time. So, roughly, CRW goes before RW groups in very light winds, and last out in higher winds.

Usually wingsuits will go 2nd last if there's CRW on the load, but as long as the spot is OK, CRW could go before wingsuit as well without any safety issues - aside from exiting wingsuiters diving at the CRW formation

I would prefer wingsuits after CRW. But the CRW-dogs I know go out way before the others, even downwind of the DZ.

Jumping before the jumprun is in my opinion the safest as you normally land before the next loads low jumprun.
We have had times when we landed at the same time as the next loads low hop n pops.
And we all stood there looking at eachoter, "where did you come from???"
He did not expect us in the air and we did not expect him to be in the air.

[DSE 5]

If CRW goes out before wingsuits, and wings need to hold in the aircraft even if they're flying a box (assuming aircraft isn't doing a 90), putting CRW at 11K when wings get out to fly past them.
You trust that the wings will *always* fly a clean box and that CRW will not deviate from line of flight?

[jurgencamps 0]

Quote

If CRW goes out before wingsuits, and wings need to hold in the aircraft even if they're flying a box (assuming aircraft isn't doing a 90), putting CRW at 11K when wings get out to fly past them.
You trust that the wings will *always* fly a clean box and that CRW will not deviate from line of flight?

And what if CRW goes out after them, opens with a little delay and the wingsuit is flying along the plane for a few seconds?

[Hellis 0]

The CReWers will be in pain, and say "I will never take a delay on this canopy again!"

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

The CReWers will be in pain, and say "I will never take a delay on this canopy again!"

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[NewGuy2005 53]

Quote

It's easier to understand in contrast to the statements on maintenance of the reserve in the previous section:

Quote

2. Maintenance and repair of the reserve:

a. The FAA requires the entire reserve assembly to be maintained as an approved parachute.

b. Repairs to the reserve assembly must be done by an FAA-certificated parachute rigger.

Essentially, the section you quoted is saying that there are no federal regulations that require any particular maintenance on your main. Of course, maintenance is still an excellent idea, but you can jump a ripped up bed sheet and call it a main parachute and the feds aren't going to have anything to say about it.

To put it in the words of my first, first jump instructor:

"Your reserve, that's got to be FAA approved and packed by an FAA licensed rigger, but your main can be whatever the f--k you want it to be. You can stick a g-d d--n handkerchief in your rig and say "f--k you, you g-d d-mn feds" and there's not a f---king thing they can do about it."

[DSE 5]

Quote

And what if CRW goes out after them, opens with a little delay and the wingsuit is flying along the plane for a few seconds?

Even *if* the wingsuiter was damn good and did fly up jumprun, he's *still* gonna be below the plane and a CRW clear n' pull if the pilot is flying level. Unless for some odd reason the CRW guys decide to take a delay (ouch for their deployment)

[skyguyscott 10]

FWIW, on large DZs with many different groups on one load, I like a crosswind jump run.

The advantage of a crosswind jump run, assuming it is made along a line (or a curve, if you prefer) upwind of the target at a distance appropriate to the prevailing winds, gives every group a separate, clean vector back to the target, and each group's distance to the target is more equal relative to winds and exit point.

Crosswind jump runs make it less likely groups will be tracking back to the DZ over or under each other.

Now, if you are jumping a 182, or if everyone on the load is in the same group, you can fly a more traditional upwind jump run like normal.

[DSE 5]

Agreed. Crosswind jumpruns often make a lot of sense, yet would also point out that crosswind, downwind, upwind doesn't make for much difference in the CRW/Wingsiut exit order conversation.

[jurgencamps 0]

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The CReWers will be in pain, and say "I will never take a delay on this canopy again!"

Some CRW jumpers use a storm, I even know wingsuitbasejumpers who do CRW after a wingsuitbasejump (it is even on video).

[Hellis 0]

Quote

I even know wingsuitbasejumpers who do CRW after a wingsuitbasejump (it is even on video).

Your point with that statement is????
I really have a hard time beliving anyone would jump a Lightning as a BASEcanopy, or what is the point of what you said?

Are you saying a BASEcanopy opens harder than a Lightning?
Slider up, and if you know how to pack. No.
My sportcanopy opens harder than my vented FLiK.

Please explain what you mean.

[jurgencamps 0]

My point: not all the CRW dogs are jumping lightnings, maybe some use other canopies (Storm, triatlon, ...)

Also it is not because it can be painfull to do long delays before opening the canopy, that long delay will not occur (unstable exit, hard pull, long snivel ...)