micro raven's stall feature

[livenletfly 0]

a very close freind of mine had a nasty malfunction involving a wingsuit. once he finaly was able to cut away his reserve, a microraven stalled upon flaring pounding him into the ground. f.y.i hes a very good canopy pilot. ive read alot of these cases im wondering whats up with this reserve?

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[hookitt 1]

Couple questions.

What is the Experience level?
What is the Make and size of his main and reserve?
How much does he weigh?

The most common cause is a fairly high wingload, no canopy control check and cramming on the brakes to land. The reserve like any other parachute requires a controlability check. Including test flaring turning, finding the stall point.

If you really learn the flight characteristics of a few parachutes, doing a control check is very quick. You can learn the flare point quickly also, but you have to pay attention.

Under pressure it's easy to over amp and just cram on the brakes and fall on your back. Ow...and that's usually the first time that person tried flaring.

Think of it this way. If you're under the reserve, more than likely you still have a couple thousand feet to flare the parachute a few times. It's open and your under it, ya might as well learn how to fly it cuz you KNOW you're landing soon.

Obviously if you're low, you have time to flare a couple times if you're lucky, and still have to remember what that point is.

It's a parachute. The skydiver must treat it as such. It's not delicate so fly the thing.

Ok that's my guess with out seeing the landing.

-
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My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Yoshi 0]

Quote

once he finaly was able to cut away his reserve,

CUT THE RESERVE AWAY?!?
-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[riggerrob 643]

Yup!
That is exactly the same story I have heard from a few people who had to use their tiny Ravens and exactly the same story I heard from Beezy Shaw and the Precision Aerodynamics factory.
When you over-load most reserves, you end up with a short control stroke and a violent stall.
These flight characteristics are the result of extrapolating early 1980s canopy technology too far. Back in those days most people were jumping seven-cell mains with about 220 square feet of F-111 fabric. The smallest canopy that I ever jumped from that era was 176 square foot Firefly. Nice canopy, but everytime I landed it my ankles stung!
It was not until the 1990s that a few reserve designers (ie. Free Flight Enterprises and Performance Designs) started factoring in higher wing-loadings. The main reason I bought an Amigo 172 reserve is because the Amigo 205 demo that I tried flew a lot like a Sabre. The last thing I want to do is re-learn canopy flight characteristics below a grand when I have too much adrenaline pumping through my veins!
I have also interviewed numerous jumpers after they landed their tiny PD reserves, and most of them said that thier PD reserves flew more like Sabres.
Beezy also re-assured me that Precision's new R-Max series of reserves have new airfoils and line trims to make them flare more like modern main canopies, long control stroke, plenty of bottom-end lift, etc.

The bottom line is: if you over-load last generation reserves, they flare like SH#T!

[livenletfly 0]

very informative thanks. jared loaded his reserve at 1.3. im not sure of ravens sizing but it had to be around a 130 sq/ft. he has around 700 jumps. so without actualy hooking up your micro raven as a main what do you suggest to prepare oneself?

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[Yoshi 0]

my brother actually experienced the same flight characteristics... not a real good flare and very high (in toggle stroke) stall. he was jumping in high winds a cut away the main landed the reserve by some trees, which made some rotars that collapsed his canopy at about 15-20 feet. it all ended with a nice fracture to t-7 in his back, but he is back and jumping again..(this happened one year ago this weekend). he was loading the 120 dash m at 1.7. he now will not jump that rig until he gets a pdr 126.

jsut thought I would throw that in..
-yoshi

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[GroundZero 0]

Yes you can jump a Super Raven as a main or reserve.

However, what everyone above has suggested is you must practice a landing at altitude anytime you jump a new canopy, whether it is main or reserve.

When I teach a first time jumper, I talk about practicing the flare. Same applies to anyone jumping a new canopy. I practice the flare on every new canopy I test jump prior to landing. This will prepare someone for the ..."Woa, that baby has a short control stroke compared to my xxxxx canopy".

When you mention that he's loading at 1.3, assuming it's a Micro Raven 135, that indicates that he is about 175 lbs out the door. (The placarded max for the 135 Micro Raven is 138 lbs, if it's a Dash-M 135 that is 182 lbs... we'll assume it is the Dash-M.)

With those canopies the end of the control stroke may be about mid chest at that loading. If one passes that point the canopy will stall. If flown proficiently at the correct point, that canopy will, in fact, surf nicely at that loading! The difference is correct flare.

Practice prior to landing will make the difference.

Chris
Precision Aerodynamics

Wait til you see the new r-MAX reserves... built like a tank and flies like a dream. One of the refinements of this new canopy was producing a reserve that flares more like your main at higher loadings... "try it, you'll like it!"

[livenletfly 0]

thanks for your info, it seems theres a good amount of people who know about microravens short stroke. im a little suprised im just learning about it now after 2 years in the sport. might be a good idea to inform new jumpers about this, it would have helped my freind on sun. i'l stick to my pd 126. though.,

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