The111 1 #1 October 8, 2007 For the past two years I've jumped an HC90 and Diamond 0.3x lens. This has been in very humid FL, and I have never had any serious fogging (condensation) problems. Sure, the front of the lens would fog sometimes, but only when I went through a cloud or actual fog or something. With my new HC5 and Raynox 5050 lens, I am having SERIOUS fog problems. Even on jumps where my ringsight, goggles, and still camera lens do not fog, the video frame begins fogging (a small, faint, near-transparent circle near the center of the frame) from 12,000ft down, with the small circle getting larger and less transparent throughout the freefall. I really don't know if this is on the outside of the lens or on the inside, but I suspect it is on the inside. Now, there 4 places it could be (2 element lens)... actually there are 6 places if you count the camcorder lens (and inside) itself but I don't think it is that one. I have applied tons of Cat Crap and it doesn't make a difference. I just got done with a 3 day wingsuit event where Norm Kent and I were both shooting photos and video and we talked a lot about this and he suggested I replace the Raynox 5050 with a single element HD lens like Century makes. The thing is, if the fog is occuring on the back face of the back element, it shouldn't make a different if I switch to single element, because that same face will still exist. We were both wondering if the fog was actually occuring between the elements (front of back element or back of front element) but neither of us could say for sure. One thing we both suspected was that it had more to do with lens MATERIAL than actual number of elements or anything else. For example, on a REALLY wet jump where the Tiffen filter on my still camera fogged on both inside and out (so bad that there was a residue after landing)... the actual SLR lens it was protecting (Canon 10-22) did not have one drop of moisture on it. Even though it was in the exact same volume of air as the backside of the Tiffen filter which was soaked. Obviously the glass, coating, or both, is different between the Tiffen filter and the 10-22 lens face. So I'm trying to figure out if I switch to a Century lens, do I go with the 0.55x single element, or the 0.5x two element which will allow zoom through? Norm did at first seem very confident that a single element would fix my problems, but we did both agree that material would be more important. So if Century uses a more fog resistant material, then wouldn't the two element work too? But maybe the fog is occuring between the elements, something neither of us can be sure about. Bottom line, this is a very confusing issue and the only way to solve it is by buying another expensive lens to test it out, and selling the ones that don't pass the test at a loss. I wasn't able to test my old Royal lens with the HD camera since I didn't have a converter ring (not to mention it doesn't have the resolution I need). But I am 99% sure it wouldn't have this problem... sure it would fog heavily when going through 4000ft, but never did it have that "little tiny circle in the center" starting as soon as I'm out the door.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 October 8, 2007 I do not have the lens you are using but I used to have 2 double element lenses and one would fog all the time and the other would only rarely fog up. I eventually traced the issue to the one lens had the glass mounted so there was a tiny gap that was letting the air on the ground in between the two elements and it was condensing on the inside of the lower element on all the jumps. It was a cheap WA so I took it and baked it in the oven on warm for a bit and the moisture dried out and it allowed the metal to expand and have the glass reseat itself to get a better seal. It would still fog up, but not as bad as it was before. The single elements I've tried don't fog up near like the double ones do. In terms of the stills, I've noticed the lens glass tends to hold the heat better from the lens being in the sun. This difference even if its only a few degrees could be enough to have the moisture collect on the filter and not the lens.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #3 October 8, 2007 is the area you work in on the ground air conditioned? try limiting the time your cameras are being cooled by a/c between jumps ..59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #4 October 8, 2007 Quote is the area you work in on the ground air conditioned? try limiting the time your cameras are being cooled by a/c between jumps .. To go along with this, i would add that one of our vidiots keeps his vid in a heating pad from landing to gearing up if he is keeping his stuff inside. Hope you figure out a solution either way. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #5 October 8, 2007 Quoteis the area you work in on the ground air conditioned? try limiting the time your cameras are being cooled by a/c between jumps Yup, we figured this one out and I kept my helmet outside all weekend after that. The heating pad idea could work but it shouldn't be necessary as I never did it with old setup. Phree, I think your post may be very helpful. It sound like my "little circle" may be between the elements and maybe I want to go with a single element. I could also take a risk and get the Century two element and see if it's constructed well enough that there's not a gap to allow air inside. It sure would be nice to have full zoom with a WA.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PharmerPhil 0 #6 October 8, 2007 I used to use a Sony multi-element lens (VCL-SW04, 0.45X) that exhibited the same inside circle fogging problem you describe. It didn't happen all the time, but definitely was more pronounced when I jumped in Fla. I switched to the Raynox 5050 lens you have, and I haven't had the problem once (even in Fla). I have never used cat crap. One possibility is that you put the w/a lens on the camera on a high-humidity day, thus trappping the moisture between the w/a lens and the stock camera lens. Or maybe there is moisture inside the elements. (I think they are supposed to be assembled with dry gases, but you may have gotten a bad unit) Personally, I need a multi-element lens so that I can zoom in on things when doing tandem videos, so the single element lens adapters aren't an option for me. BTW, you mention that the conditions on the rear of your UV filter were the same as on the front of the 10-22 lens. This may not be true. Moisture in the air condenses as it cools on colder surfaces (beer bottles for instance). Good chance that when in freefall, your front element cools down quite quickly, while the front of the 10-22 lens retains it's temperature for a longer time. Just food for thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #7 October 9, 2007 Quote I switched to the Raynox 5050 lens you have, and I haven't had the problem once (even in Fla). I have never used cat crap. . It may well be that you've got a leaky lens. My *first* move would be to hit Raynox or your dealer to see if they can swap it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #8 October 9, 2007 Matt, I had the same problem with one of my lenses, the best I could tell is that it had a "leak" in it. I was jumping two video cameras both with the same type of wide angle lens. One lens fogged the other did not. I switched the lenses between the cameras just to see what would happen. The same lens fogged. it got replaced. P.S. Starting my CCM this weekend be ready for some calls :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #9 October 9, 2007 Leaks...forgive the lack of knowledge, please. I'm listening and learning. Wouldn't be simple to just plug the leak somehow? Tape? Sealant of some type?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AS1 0 #10 October 9, 2007 I've got an HC5 with a Raynox 5050 and not had a problem so far. Dodgy lens sounds a distinct possibility. Try someone elses 5050 on your setup maybe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #11 October 9, 2007 QuoteLeaks...forgive the lack of knowledge, please. I'm listening and learning. Wouldn't be simple to just plug the leak somehow? Tape? Sealant of some type? I've always been told that once it starts to fog between the two lenses there's not much you can do to fix it. I'm not 100% sure though. I tried taping mine until I replaced it but wasn't very successful. Im wondering of maybe its air tight between the lenses and once air gets in there the porblems begin. I dunno, now Im curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #12 October 9, 2007 Thanks to those who have suggested the leaky lens. This was something I've been considering too. I will call B&H and see if I can trade out for the same lens, or try to find a place locally to do it.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #13 October 9, 2007 WONDER....HUMMMMMM what would happen in you dry nitrogen the lens like a rifle scope .59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #14 October 9, 2007 Some more food for thought: If I do indeed have a "leaky lens"... it is most likely a very small leak. This would make sense. This would mean the air volume in the inside is slow to equalize. So during fast ambient changes (freefall), it cannot equalize fast enough and condensation is created.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimoke 0 #15 October 9, 2007 I have the same problem with my raynox lens. I believe it may have something to do with the lens being concave. it may create some type burble effect? a royal lens is flat. I am going through the exact problem. I just bought a kenko .42 which allows 3/4 zoom through and no fog jimokeThe ground always, remembers where you are! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #16 October 9, 2007 multi element , can be between lenses. Try a single element lens on teh sme cam to see if it's from the camera. Also try one of the Flight Club ventilated lenses, lets "lots" of air between the elements so it has more air circulation to equalize and dissipate the fogscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #17 October 10, 2007 Has anybody ever tried to take silica gel in between lens and filter or between lens and camera? I had fogging problems on that same weekend but only on my 8mm Peleng, not on the Kit lens or the Diamond 0.3. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #18 October 11, 2007 Quotemulti element , can be between lenses. Try a single element lens on teh sme cam to see if it's from the camera. Also try one of the Flight Club ventilated lenses, lets "lots" of air between the elements so it has more air circulation to equalize and dissipate the fog This is the second reference I've seen to "Flight Club" lenses. Googling has gotten me nowhere. links? Pix? Info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #19 October 11, 2007 QuoteThis is the second reference I've seen to "Flight Club" lenses. Googling has gotten me nowhere. links? Pix? Info?LINK to The Ippolittov Anti- fog Ventilated Lensscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #20 October 11, 2007 Quote Ippolittov Anti- fog Ventilated Lens By "ventilated" do they mean internal dust collector? www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #21 October 11, 2007 Quote Quote Ippolittov Anti- fog Ventilated Lens By "ventilated" do they mean internal dust collector? That would be my first thought. This appears to be nothing more than a Royal/Cookie/Waycool-frame style with vents drilled into the side that are bi-directional vs having a one-way valve. I can see that this would work, but at what additional cost? without trying one, I can't imagine that it would stay clean, and also wonder if there are any distortions amplified by dirt/dust moving behind the glass? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #22 October 11, 2007 best thing would be to ask directly the people from Flight Club scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky490 0 #23 October 18, 2007 Here is what I do! First wash your new lens good, take it apart if it has several elements and clean all surfaces Next I apply a product designed for scuba divers, Sea Drops by Manett Most important is the following, Never bring your camera into a air conditioned room. If you do you are asking for trouble. If you are in Florida leave your camera outside Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #24 October 18, 2007 Hmm, I am not sure how one would go about taking a 2 element lens apart...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #25 October 18, 2007 Quote Hmm, I am not sure how one would go about taking a 2 element lens apart... Apart is never the big problem ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
