Good, current cameras

[AndyMan 7]

My PC120 is dieing, and it's time for a replacement.

I was just about to pick up a PC1000, but suddenly it's been discontinued and the prices have gone through the roof. It was going for $700, but now it's going for over $1000.

I also considered the HC1, but it's been discontinued, too. The only "affordable" HD Sony camcorder is the HC3, and aparently it's got that old anti-shake problem.

Why is Sony discontinuing all their good cameras?

Is anyone jumping any non-Sony brands with any success? I know Canon makes very good pro stuff, do they make any good consumer grade ones?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bob.dino 1]

Quote

...The only "affordable" HD Sony camcorder is the HC3, and aparently it's got that old anti-shake problem.

Huh? You sure? I haven't heard anything about that...

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Huh? You sure?

Nope, but DSE seems to be...
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2207638;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;#2213278


I just bought a used PC1000, so but still.... Is Sony selling any good cameras? Or have I just got tunnel vision?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Miami 0]

He was predicting at the beginning of that thread, then ran into no problems with it and corrected himself later. Read the rest of the thread for the full story, but to sum it up, in his opinion the HC3 is fine for skydiving.

Miami

[RedKite 1]

I've just bought one (a HC3). I'm getting it set up with a mounting, rollcage etc today and I should jump it in the next few days. I'll let you know how it goes for me.........

[FeFe 0]

Quote

The only "affordable" HD Sony camcorder is the HC3, and aparently it's got that old anti-shake problem.

if there is an anti-shake problem (which I can not comment on because I have not jumped HC3 yet, maybe DSE will bring us some light on that), it's nature is very different from the 'old' 900 series shake problem
I believe the 900 series had an optical stabilization, HC3 uses electronics

[kwmontreal 0]

Try this.

http://www.pcandplasma.com/shop/Product.asp?ProdTypeList=1000&Sku=SonPc350

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------JUMP SAFE!

[RedKite 1]

Hi All

Jumped my HC3 for the first time yesterday.....absolutely no problems of any description. Great quality picture and colour.....and that wasn't even in High Definition Mode!

I don't have a HD TV set so I can't use the HD at present.

This is a nice camera.

Regards

Red Kite

PS I'm new to Camera Flying but the experienced Vidiots were also impressed.

[DSE 5]

HC3 is entirely electronic stabilization, and in it's class, it's better than any I've seen (including the HC1), but it still messes with resolution more than I'd like it to. The skydiving pics we've got, coupled with graphs from the protrack show it manages tracking very nicely. Just be sure you're never stopped down heavily. Speed up the shutter so the aperture stays open, you'll like it.
NO 1/3 chip camcorder should ever be stopped down more than F4 anyway.
I'm waiting on a glove for mine, my DZ will allow me to jump with a glove now that I've got my B license. This will allow me to test for specific function, such as an AIE chart mounted on my chest strap. That gives me a known base from which I can work.
This sucks, having a helmet, lots of cams, and can't jump with them at the same time, but I know I've got to progress in paces.

[vdschoor 0]

Quote

HC3 is entirely electronic stabilization, and in it's class, it's better than any I've seen (including the HC1), but it still messes with resolution more than I'd like it to.

Can you expand on this one a bit more? You don't like the image stabilization on the HC-1? Or (according to your post, not as well)

Is it very noticeable, or what are the issues, and for example how does it compare to image stabilization on today's cameras (for example I jump a TRV17 and I am pretty happy with the image stabilization on that one)

[DSE 5]

The HC3 is third generation technology in the HDV realm, and has some significant improvements in the DSP. It's a faster processor, which allows it to be better.
The HC1 is older tech, and first gen CMOS in it's flavor. It's not as advanced. The problem with it (IMO) is that due to the DSP infancy plus how the CMOS manages the pixels, stabilization at tight angles could be significantly improved (which it now is in the HC3) but skydivers don't care much about the deep shot, they're after wide angles. This isn't nearly as big an issue for normal use. However, if you use a cheapo W/A on the cam, you could easily create abberation, which then significantly confuses the DSP due to color timing. Use a good lens, this shouldn't be an issue.
The more I jump with the HC3, the more impressed I am with it for *this* purpose. We've done motoX with it, skydiving, and scuba, and it simply rocks.
We've skydived the A1 (same as HC1 but professional format vs consumer) and it's done quite well too. We're shooting a 3 camera specialty shoot for TLC next week, using A1 vs HC3, just for the better imager with Diamond lenses. We're using 2 HC3's on the lead skydivers as well, so I'll have some comparison footage fer y'all to look at. We're using 2 Z1U's in the plane, 2 Z1's on the ground for a total of 7 cams on this particular event.

[vdschoor 0]

Awesome, that would be very interesting to see.

Several friends have the Z1 here as well, but that thing is way too big for "everyday jumping" as well as way out of my budget.

I'm working on flying without a wide angle, or when I do.. use a wide angle that's not as wide as what is generally used. I've seen a lot of footage without wideangle lately (I've been editting some of Greg Gasson's footage from the holiday boogie in Eloy) and I like the image way better than any wide angle footage I have seen so far.. of course it helps that Greg is an extremely good camera flyer as well..

A guy at my home dz (Byron) is jumping the HC-1 as well, mainly without a wide angle and the footage just looks AMAZING..

[yuri_base 1]

Quote

Speed up the shutter so the aperture stays open, you'll like it.
NO 1/3 chip camcorder should ever be stopped down more than F4 anyway.

What shutter speed do you use to achieve F < 4.0?

What are the disadvantages of setting the shutter speed even higher than that?

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[yuri_base 1]

Quote

However, if you use a cheapo W/A on the cam, you could easily create abberation, which then significantly confuses the DSP due to color timing. Use a good lens, this shouldn't be an issue.

When using Century Optics 0.55x with HC-1, I see this strange effect: the picture becomes kind of "liquid", not moving as a whole, but rather the center is kind of "floating" relative to corners.

I think this side effect is created by electronic image stabilizer. Wide angle lens introduces significant barrel distortion, which has different strength at the center and corners. When electronic IS moves the cropping frame around to compensate for the shake, the center of distortion appears to be moving and that makes the image look "liquid".

Do you know which WA lenses have the least barrel distortion (while maintaining the high resolution suitable for HDV)?

Thanks!

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

[DSE 5]

Quote

Quote

However, if you use a cheapo W/A on the cam, you could easily create abberation, which then significantly confuses the DSP due to color timing. Use a good lens, this shouldn't be an issue.

Do you know which WA lenses have the least barrel distortion (while maintaining the high resolution suitable for HDV)?

Thanks!

There really isn't one. BandPro says they've got one under test for the A1 (which would work for the HC1)
but I've only seen a little info on it. You might call Jeff at 16x9 and ask him if it's shipping yet. You can download a res aspect chart, shoot it, and find the "sweet spot" of the lens you've got. I'm confident that you're confusing the DSP, causing the "tunnel" that gives you color timing errors.

[skymoo 0]

Quote

However, if you use a cheapo W/A on the cam, you could easily create abberation, which then significantly confuses the DSP due to color timing. Use a good lens, this shouldn't be an issue...

Which is a good wide angle lens for this camera, and which should be avoided (cheapo)?

http://www.childrenofthesky.com

Freefly!

[DSE 5]

Unfortunately, no one makes a "good" wide angle for this camera at this point in time. It's a 30mm mount, and no one builds an HD-resolved 30mm.
I'm using a stepdown from 37 to 30mm, and I push my camera just slightly forward of full wide.
Most of the time, I'm not using a wide on the HC3. Unless you're getting really close, at 5.1mm (if you conver the angle to a standard 35mm value) you don't *really* need it. But...
If you have access to a test chart, you can adjust the cam fairly well, and using the 37mm stepdownring with an XDream .3 lens, you can get desaturate the reds so they're not too far off, and of course, you can correct for this in post as well.
A cheapo lens like the Kenko 30mm or some of the no-name offshoots will give you some troubles.
I keep meaning to post comparisons, the Xdream lenses have really impressed me for what they cost and what they offer.

[skymoo 0]

Quote

Most of the time, I'm not using a wide on the HC3. Unless you're getting really close, at 5.1mm (if you conver the angle to a standard 35mm value) you don't *really* need it. ... Xdream lenses have really impressed me for what they cost and what they offer.

OK DSE, first off, great article on that skydiving wedding you shot... very interesting. Well, my HC3 is finally here. Protection box search is coming to an end. Lens is the next step.

Questions for DSE and those of you in the know out there:
When I shoot with the HC3 I feel closer - have to step back further - than I used to have to with my PC-9, no wide angle attached on either. You write "you don;t really need it" ... but I'm still inclined to get it - given this. Questions:
- Where can you get the Xdream lens?
- Is .3 too much if you fly just outside a 2-way Freefly formation; would .45 be better?
- I found a Raynox HD-5050PRO, 37mm, 0.5x, Super Wide Angle Conversion Lens for $90 which promises to allow for full zoom and no vignette. Would you recommend this lens? It advertises for HD. Is it better than Cookie Composites Liquid (half way zoom, no vignette either since they make it 30 mm, or Xdream's .3x? Will .5 be too little to Freefly inside and outside the formation? I've flown .45 inside freefly just fine; wondering if the new HD - widescreen format and .5X lens will make enough difference/damage that I should go for another lens.
- Since last post months ago, is there a better wide angle lens you can recommend for Sony's HC3 HDV camera to take most advantage of its video quality?

Looking forward to your comments

http://www.childrenofthesky.com

Freefly!

[DSE 5]

There are some good wides, but none of them are small enough to suit the typical skydiving use. Good lenses are quite heavy and large.
The Xdream is what I'm using for casual jumps, and using a 16x9 branded version of the Zeiss .6 for my V1U and Z1 camcorders on the bigger $ jumps and spec work. The XDream's only resolves roughly 80% of the information at center (best case), but it's still very good.
The Raynox lenses only resolve to full HD at specific points in the zoom; you'll want to use a rez chart to find that point on your cam.
I've got a variety of lenses, but find that .5 is plenty, and with the HC3, sometimes I don't use a wide at all. YMMV

[markovwgti 0]

damn im sick and tired of reading all these reviews for the HC-3, should i just go out and buy it now? i think im gona run down to best buy and pick it up right now

[DSE 5]

Well...if you want one, you'd best hurry. They are discontinued as of Feb 1, 2007. CES starts tomorrow morning, I'll report what I see that hasn't already been brought up, if y'all are interested.

[PhreeZone 20]

I would LOVE to know what Sony is brining out as a replacement for the soon to be discontinued HC3.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DSE 5]

Well...I can tell you that the current crop are all HDD or DVD based, which is why the HC3 is still likely the best candidate.
the new Panasonic uses static mem, but it's AVCHD, so can't be edited by most systems. In fact, currently only Sony Vegas can manage AVCHD, but others will soon update, prolly by NAB in April.
JVC's new Everio is also HDD based, and Canon has said they have no plans for new releases until much later this year.
That leaves darn few camcorder manufacturers to be doing much differently, but that's part of why I'm at CES...to see who's doing what outside the loop.