ragingbull 0 #1 May 9, 2003 Hello Everyone, I am about to buy a used canopy, but I am still no sure which canopy i should take. I have tested a Heatwave 135 a few times, and I found it quite amazing, considering what I have flown up to then (PISA Conquest 150). Now I have an offer for a used Stiletto 135 with ~350 jumps (which I don't have jumped yet). Can anyone who knows both wings tell me, which canopy would be better (considering the price difference). Is it true that the stiletto's ZP-material is much more durable than the heatwave's? Thanks a lot for your help blue skies P.S.: I have got 135 Jumps, and my weight is 198. "freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose" (Me and Bobby McGee - Janis Joplin) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 May 9, 2003 Wow. 1.6 at 135 jumps. Good luck man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #3 May 9, 2003 Approx 1.66 wingload (with, say 25 lbs of gear) at 135 jumps on an elliptical.... I hope you're as hot as you think you are..... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #4 May 9, 2003 QuoteCan anyone who knows both wings tell me, which canopy would be better Depends on whether you are just trying to break a few bones or end it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #5 May 9, 2003 Quote break a few bones or end it all I disagree with you... I think either of these can be equally good in both categories.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #6 May 9, 2003 Myabe we should give him the benefit of the doubt on the weight issue. Since he is from Europe, he may have made a mistake with the conversion from kg to lbs. Ragingbull, what is your weight in kg? You stated that you have only flown a 150 (I would assume since student status) witch at your weight would be around a 1.49 wingloading. That seems very high for some one with no experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #7 May 9, 2003 I guess you are have a good point SD... guess its easy to get upset these days with the numbers of accidents and deaths…. Lets hope you are right…Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #8 May 9, 2003 Why can't people on this board just answer a question? Profiles arn't always right ( mine isn't). A simple answer would surfice, and then maybe a question about experience I've jumped both and owned a Heatwave I thought the Heatwave turned a little quicker, was a little more stable and had more bottom end flair. But they were both very similar. A stiletto flyer would probably like it more. The frabric I guess it depends on who you ask. When I had my Triathlon Aerodyne said that the frabric had better longevity then the stuff PD uses, now they have an ex-PD employee and they say different. Atair and PISA both said there were no issues with the material and that it would last as long or longer then the PD material so who knows. . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #9 May 9, 2003 QuoteProfiles arn't always right QuoteP.S.: I have got 135 Jumps, and my weight is 198. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #10 May 9, 2003 I've never weighed in on one of these questions and no one could ever claim I'm a canopy nazi. But really, can you blame people for their approach? Too many deaths and injuries due to low timers making incredibly dumb decisions. If their comments save just ONE person from getting under a canopy the size of a beach towel when they should be under an air barge, it will have been a small price to pay. By the way, I'm 260 out the door w/ gear and I'm jumping a 265. And I'm quite happy with it, thank you very much. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ragingbull 0 #11 May 9, 2003 Quote Approx 1.66 wingload (with, say 25 lbs of gear) at 135 jumps on an elliptical.... I hope you're as hot as you think you are..... No, my EXIT-weight is 198, so the wingload is ~1.46. Besides, I landed the heatwave in zero-wind, and the landing wasn't bad. But I agree with you, this is quite a hot csnopy for my experience. blue skies "freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose" (Me and Bobby McGee - Janis Joplin) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 May 9, 2003 Go Stilleto. The recovery arc is longer, but apart from that the turn speed and desent rate are similar. The Stilleto will out float a heatwave on deep brakes, and also outswoop the heatwave. The heatwave will also die sooner. The silicone treated ZP made by Galvanor and used by Pisa will not last as long as the fabric used by PD, but be slightly easier to pack. I've done a bunch of jumps on a heatwave 100 loaded to about 2.0, and through to about 1.6. I currently jump a Stilleto 107 loaded to 1.7. People here are also concerned about your experience level vs your wing loading. Be careful, and have fun out there. Things can bite really quick where you're at. t tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #13 May 9, 2003 QuoteBut I agree with you, this is quite a hot csnopy for my experience. if you know this, then why are u getting it?? do you want to get hurt. i don't mean to be an ass, but you just said it your self. i think that a 1.46, is too much for 135 jumps. brian germain has something, somewhere on his recemendations on wing loadings it's something like 100 jumps 1.1 200 1.2 300 1.3 400 1.4 and so on. and you have to take into consideration these are both fully elliptacal canopy's, and are much more prone to spinning mals, and i hate to say, but anyone with 135 jumps doesn't know how to fly the openings well enough to keep them under control to not spin up. and again, i don't mean to be an ass, but i just don't like to see anyone get hurt. i had a friend do this same thing, and he broke his leg. but, again, i don't think it really matter what any of us say, you are still your own person, and can do what ever you want later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ragingbull 0 #14 May 9, 2003 No, I have started with a 210, then made around 90 jumps on the 150. blue skies "freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose" (Me and Bobby McGee - Janis Joplin) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #15 May 9, 2003 Still man, its a fairly high wingload on a fairly aggressive canopy design for 135 jumps. Its not a FX or VX or Xaos, but still... Anyway, have fun, and dont brake too many bones... PS: how is you current canopy control on the 150? can you do all the Bill Von (TM) landing exercises? PPS: I'm quite sure I could manage to land a 2.0+ loaded canopy on a no wind day too... most people could, most of the time.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ragingbull 0 #16 May 9, 2003 Yeah, I absolutely agree with you about your PSS: Probably I can land this canopy most of the times; but IF something happens, it would be good to have more experience. It's very likely, that I'd be in deep shit IF something happens. I know that. But its worth, because flying such a canopy is a hell load of fun. But back to my point: I would rather like to know which canopy you prefer and why. Thanx "freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose" (Me and Bobby McGee - Janis Joplin) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #17 May 9, 2003 Personal preference to the Stiletto... You shouldn't buy either! Look into the Safire2 / Sabre2 options... Both are nice canopies, you can learn a huge range of flying styles from them, and their opening and flight characteristics are going to be much more appealing to someone with your level of experience. Much safer to dial in swooping, than on a stiletto... If you're looking for a used canopy, be patient... the right canopy for you will come up sooner or later... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 May 9, 2003 Alright, I'm giving you the benifit of doubt here, that you're not going to be loading your canopy that high... I have a Heatwave and I've jump a stiletto quite a bit.. The rumor that PISA's material doesn't last as long is bullshit, something that PD snobs (people who will only jump PD canopies and think everything else is crap) came up with. Personally, I like how a Heatwave flies compaired to a stiletto, its not near as twitchy feeling as the stiletto seems. It also has a longer control stroke (which also effects the "twitchy-ness"). Well, end of story is that although Stilettos are great canopies, I'm a BIG Heatwave fan.about 50 jumps on a Stiletto loaded at 1.4 and at just under 1.7 about 200 jumps on a Heatwave loaded at just under 1.7 EDIT: I just read the rest of the thread...I agree with everyone else here, pay attention, they might keep you from being dead. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMonkey 0 #19 May 9, 2003 QuoteIt's very likely, that I'd be in deep shit IF something happens. I know that. if you're gonna be dumb, you got to be tough...you my friend, better be bulletproof.... --------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 May 9, 2003 QuoteIt's very likely, that I'd be in deep shit IF something happens. I know that. But its worth, because flying such a canopy is a hell load of fun. Well if you know this, why do it? Live long enough you can jump anything. If you are going to anyway get a Stiletto 107. Put this note in your rig: "WHEN I smack the fuck in under this canopy that is above my skill level and kill/really screw myself up. Please send it to Ron Hill c/o Skydive City Z-Hills FL." I need a second main. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #21 May 9, 2003 QuoteProbably I can land this canopy most of the times; but IF something happens, it would be good to have more experience. Okay i haven't said anything up till now because i was giving you the benifit of the doubt about "oh well maybe he is really good" etc.. but with a statement like this you are a statistic waiting to happen man. How fun is smacking into the ground and possible death? I have 250 - 260ish jumps weigh 155 out the door and jump a hornet 135 (the heatwave's little brother). I'll be the first to admit I probaly downsized too quickly, I went from a 220 that I owned to putting two jumps on a 160 triathalon (somewhere around there) to the 135 I now have. I was jumping the 135 by jump 65 I believe. I felt very comfortable with it, wasn't doing radical turns or anything -- i have never had an injury or a close call. I have had one Birdman cutaway on this canopy and it was a pretty intense spinning mal that put me on my back i had no issues with handling the situation but that was at jump 200 something. Point of the matter is, you have the wrong attitude - at least you know your limits "if something happens it would be good to have more experience" listen to yourself man. Your problem is that you know your limits but you don't care Don't take after ludacris and "act a fool" Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #22 May 9, 2003 "if something happens it would be good to have more experience" listen to yourself man. QuoteI'll bet they told you the same thing when you jumped the birdman with 200 jumps.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #23 May 9, 2003 Quote"if something happens it would be good to have more experience" listen to yourself man. QuoteI'll bet they told you the same thing when you jumped the birdman with 200 jumps. Nope actually Jari (the president of Birdman) trained me himself, knew my skill level, and made a judgement call on his own as to if I was ready for it or not. Furthermore, just for your clarification, birdman recommends 200 jumps for training with an instructor or 500 for training by yourself. I started at 150ish so i was still early of that, but the same statement from above applies. FURTHERMORE *i* was confident in my abilities and wasn't saying at the time I started BM "if shit goes wrong I might be better having more experience" There are things I don't do but would like to, the reason I don't do them is i know my personal limits. But yeah to answer your question, had it been anyone else that trained me then I probably would have gotton flack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #24 May 9, 2003 I think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #25 May 9, 2003 QuoteI think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway. Point taken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kevin922 0 #23 May 9, 2003 Quote"if something happens it would be good to have more experience" listen to yourself man. QuoteI'll bet they told you the same thing when you jumped the birdman with 200 jumps. Nope actually Jari (the president of Birdman) trained me himself, knew my skill level, and made a judgement call on his own as to if I was ready for it or not. Furthermore, just for your clarification, birdman recommends 200 jumps for training with an instructor or 500 for training by yourself. I started at 150ish so i was still early of that, but the same statement from above applies. FURTHERMORE *i* was confident in my abilities and wasn't saying at the time I started BM "if shit goes wrong I might be better having more experience" There are things I don't do but would like to, the reason I don't do them is i know my personal limits. But yeah to answer your question, had it been anyone else that trained me then I probably would have gotton flack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites towerrat 0 #24 May 9, 2003 I think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #25 May 9, 2003 QuoteI think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway. Point taken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
towerrat 0 #24 May 9, 2003 I think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #25 May 9, 2003 QuoteI think you saw my point. I wasn't trying to attack you and I undertand your special circumstances.nonetheless, Darwin is still watching and I see no point in driving in the same point over and over to some people. I truly think a lot of people don't get the answers the want at their dropzone from their instructors and peers, so they come looking here. Had you come to these forums with 150 jumps talking about jumping the birdman, hopefully people would have said HELL NO. But, the fact still remains. You would have done it anyway. Point taken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
