real time live video feed -- how soon?

[steveorino 7]

Some guys did this at our DZ a year or so -- dang! I was out of town (Cancun

Question: How soon will most of us be able to do that (with or preferably without the antennae guy)?

steveOrino

[sdctlc 0]

They wre messing around with that at Nationals at Eloy a number of years ago I seem to remember. The camera guys had the ant and all. It worked OK but I think I remember hearing about some bugs. Then it kinda went away. I am sure someone else with more direct knowledge will pipe up!

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[PhreeZone 20]

They did it on Good Morning America this last year at the Ranch in NY. Might want to contact someone from there about it since I know they needed hours of setup time for the reciever to do live TV shots of it.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AndyMan 7]

"AndreVideo" has a setup he pulls out a few times every year. I think it's VHF based, and the quality is not as good as you'd like... but it's pretty cool.

What's really neat is that he's got the ground station rigged up to start playing music off a tape deck once the signal comes in. Andre is a bit odd that way...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[faulknerwn 38]

Back in '97 for the Women's CRW record, our video guy jumped with a small satellite dish on his leg and we were broadcast live setting a record on a LA morning tv show - was quite cool!
W

[murrays 0]

The 1988 Olympic Rings skydive into the opening ceremonies of the Seoul Olympics was beamed live...I recall a couple of bits of bad reception but it worked pretty well.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[MB38 0]

Shouldn't be too hard with something like one of these, particularly considering it'd be line of sight. Even their 2 mile transmitters should make twice that line of sight. You could put together a little transmitter system that would be small enough to mount on your helmet with the camera for only a few hundred. Stick a big yagi antenna on the receiver and you're in business.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[quade 4]

Quote

Shouldn't be too hard with something like one of these, particularly considering it'd be line of sight.

This is where a LOT of people go awry. It's just not as simple as it sounds -- BELIEVE me.

With -enough- money a system is possible, but NOT for the amounts of money we're talking about in a normal skydiving operation. Probably not even for MOST Demo events. Probably ONLY makes sense for very LARGE events such as the Olympics or government operations.

Quote

You could put together a little transmitter system that would be small enough to mount on your helmet with the camera for only a few hundred. Stick a big yagi antenna on the receiver and you're in business.

No. No, you can't.

BTW, when it comes to antennas, "bigger" isn't always better. If you don't understand why, then I have doubts about your success at ever creating a system from off the self parts.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pcalandra 0]

It's a very expensive proposition around 5K+ to do it right, however you still need someone to point a ground antenna at you. I jumped one from http://www.premierwirelessinc.com/index.htm a sponsor rented for a demo once, it worked ok but was a rather bulky pain in the ass! There are other manufacturers that are popular and used in "FanCam's" for stadium use but their names escape me at the moment.

[pope 0]

much easier to broadcast exit shots from the plane though, isn't it?
pope

[MB38 0]

I'd love it if you could expand a little more, Quade. I've worked with SuperCircuits transmitters before with great success [on the ground] over several miles. My only concern is the continually changing orientation of the transmitter on the jumper, something an omni should help with [but not solve completely]. So where do the other complications come in?

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[videointhesky 0]

Hey Scott

Here is my 2Cents on real time live video feed

The most important thing is keeping line of sight between the Transmitter Antenna & the
Receiving Antenna. I have found that being belly to earth and pointing with the camcorder back towards the Receiving Antenna works well. Videoing Tandems can cause the line of sight of
Transmitter Antenna to over shoot the Receiving Antenna if you are low and looking up into
The Tandems face or have a step angle as you are videoing.

I have my Transmitter Antenna & battery pack set up in a fanny pack that is worn in the front under my jump suit. To power up the Transmitter. I plug in the battery pack to the Transmitter by a small connector the zip up the fanny pack and then the jumpsuit. The connection to the camcorder is done with a small heavy duty 3 wire cable that has a right angle mini 3wire stereo male plug the connects to the camcorder A/V out one end and to the Transmitter on the other end. This cable is has a straight mini 3wire stereo male and female
connectors for a quick release if the helmet has to go away in an emergency.

On the ground there is a Receiver Antenna that connects to a box that converts the wireless A/V signal to RCA jack output to a TV, VCR, and Camcorder. Power is 12vdc from a battery or 12v to 120 vac converter.


Video from inside the jump plane is hit and miss
If your close to a non metal door and the line of sight is on you may get a good video signal
I have used this system from 13,000ft agl and below.

I have some video from Speed Star Competition that took place at West Plains Skydiving that was recorded on the ground from a live Air to Ground Jump when I find it I will put it
Link up so anyone that is interested can see the video quality of this system.

I have had my system for 3 years.

This is not a commercial for this Air to Ground Video System
I’m just sharing information


Air to Ground wireless Video System
http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com

Model HPAL07 http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/onlinestore/scstore/spvdolinks.htm?L+scstore+kpyr1382ff562b56+1136212428#hpal07




Model HPAL07 Technical Specifications

7 mile range 2 channel video and stereo audio. Weatherproof 13" by 13" patch receiver antenna with 10 foot coax cable from receiver to antenna. Receiver and transmitter both operate on 12vdc and have RCA jacks for video and stereo audio inputs and outputs. Includes two AC power supplies and two 4 foot video / stereo audio cables.
To optimize full range both receiver and transmitter antennas should be located as high above objects with line of site, works best outside of buildings.

Technical Specifications
Application: Fixed location point to point Video/Audio Link
Range: 7 Mile
Transmitter Power Output: 100mW
Receiver Input Sensitivity -85dBm
Modulation: FM
Frequency: 2 channels 2.434GHz & 2.411GHz
Transmitter Antenna: Built-in Patch - Directional and Adjustable
Receiver Antenna: 13" x 13" External Patch with 10 ft Coax
Video Bandwidth: 6MHz
Video Format: NTSC or PAL
TV Lines Max: 525
Connectors: RCA Jacks - Yellow Video, Red Right Audio, and White Left Audio
Video Input Level: 1 V p-p
Audio Input Level: 1 V p-p
Video Input Impedance: 75 ohms
Audio Input Impedance: 600 ohms
Video Output Level: 1 V p-p
Audio Output Level: 1 V p-p
Power Required Transmitter: 12vdc @ 500mA
Power Required Receiver: 12vdc @ 500mA
Transmitter Dimensions: 6.0 x 4.5 x 1.8 inches
Receiver Dimensions: 6.0 x 4.5 x 1.8 inches
Includes: 2- AC Power Supplies, 2- Video / Stereo Audio Cables

[turtlespeed 226]

At Skydive Temple last summer I put on a transmitter and a digital elph(wired like a cam eye . . . transmitter was in my pocket inside my suit) and shot live feed through a home made system - rough cost - $250.00 - I didn't build it - pretty fun actually.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[steveorino 7]

I'd like more info -- You can email or PM if you'd like.

steveOrino

[davelepka 4]

I think ESPN was doing this 8 or 9 years ago with the SSI Pro tour. I remember the requirments for video flyers was for digital video (not so common then) and you had to mount the transmitter on your helemt. It looked like an oil filter for a car.

Of course ESPN has pretty deep pockets, and I'm sure used the system for a million other events as well.

As long as the system is built into the camera, I'm all for it. Anything more turns into a pain in the ass.

The DZ I'm at now used to mike tandem students, and had a reciver that plugged into the mic jack on your camera. I was a cool idea, that worked out OK. They used to dump just before the tandems, and fly within range to get audio under canopy.

I guess there were technical troubles, as well as making sure you and your subject had the correct mics/recivers.

Thank god they gave it up the year before I started working there.

[quade 4]

Quote

I'd love it if you could expand a little more, Quade. I've worked with SuperCircuits transmitters before with great success [on the ground] over several miles. My only concern is the continually changing orientation of the transmitter on the jumper, something an omni should help with [but not solve completely]. So where do the other complications come in?

I think we might have a difference of subjective opinion of what is and is not acceptable video.

For the sake of argument, let's call the threshold of acceptable 2 IRE of noise with no decernable ghosting. Or . . . something akin to what you'd expect to see out of a first generation VHS recording using "good" equipment.

I've yet to see any DZ affordable analogue system that can can give continously acceptable results (by my definitions) from the door to the ground. Most are based around microwave frequencies that require an operator on the ground to point and track the receive antenna at the transmitter. The transmit antenna, by design, needs to be an omni-drectional antenna, which wastes quite a bit of energy which means the receive antenna needs to be somewhat directional to make up for the initial losses; thus the pointing requirements for the receive side.

Analogue fails miserably because of multi-path; parts of the signal bouncing off of buildings, hills and whatnot and ending up simply adding noise and ghosting.

What is really needed then is compressed digital transmission with sufficient retransmits and buffering to allow for dropouts of the carrier. This technology is available, but -currently- only at a price well above what most DZ operations would be able to afford.

Believe me, if it were a via thing to do, I'd be doing it already!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mircan 0]

What`s the situation 3,5 years later?
Anyone using live feed now?

dudeist skydiver #42

[DSE 5]

Quade's post summed it up pretty well 3 years ago. And it hasn't changed much. In fact, the viable bandwidth for such work changed recently, and it's more narrow now than it was then. DTV has shifted the world, and HD wants more bandwidth. 2.5 miles, even LOS... is still a lot to ask for at full rez or even reasonable quality.

[mircan 0]

what about low quality footage? "webcamera-like"? just something interesting for people on the ground to look. cheap. dirty.

dudeist skydiver #42

[Laszloimage 0]

The 6Mhz band width with 100mW power is definitelly not the best solution for an analog good quality TV signal for 2-3 miles while the trasmitter is moving (freefalling) I think the best would be to increase the the output power (1-2 Watt) and send a digital signal. How about to build an AVI/MPEG-2 converter and feed it from the FireWire port?
Or some cameras have the streaming capability through the USB port...

[DSE 5]

Web quality (say....512Kpbs) wouldn't be hard at all.
Laszlo started down the right path with a converter, but I'd go to MP4. I dont' have one to play with anymore, but I *believe* the Sony Webbie can export live MP4 via the USB port at user-selectable bitrates.

[billvon 3,107]

We did it on the SFO demo. Worked pretty well. Was a LOS system with a very high gain directional receive antenna. Didn't get too many details on the frequency, bandwidth etc but looked like NTSCish quality.

[DSE 5]

You could achieve NTSC quality with MPEG 4 at approx 750Kpbs. If the encoder crushed the blacks and limited the top end, you could do it around 600k.
I've seen some LOS short-distance non-licensed systems that offer greater bitrates but I'm sure that's not what you were using.
RSM has an MPEG 4 system that is 20 watts(?) for a coupla grand, but it wasn't impressive at NAB (my only real experience with it). 20 watts should give you 10 miles + of stable vid assuming there isn't a lot of other RF in the area, but you'd know a lot more about radio than I would.

[champu 1]

Was there live air-to-ground from the freefall groups? I thought the jumbo-tron just had video from the landing areas, stabilized shots of the formations and jets from the ground, and the CReW air-to-ground.

[velocityphoto 0]

Andre is pretty funny guy . i know years ago everyone was afraid to jump with him because they couldn't understand him ,then they found out how long he'd been jumping and how much experience he had . Everyone was in shock! LOL...

He built his system himself , and i'm sure he'd probably throw something together to shoot hd to the ground if he was asked!

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................