BETO74 0 #1 June 16, 2004 How is the timing on exit when making video, how you get the best shoots and stay right on top? I already did a forum search just looking for different advices and perspectives. Thanks Carloshttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #2 June 16, 2004 Hmm in those searches, you didn't find Quade's article? Clicky to article It says it all.. read it and then the next thing to do is practice, practice, practice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #3 June 16, 2004 No way!!! just wondering if there is any other suggestions on what do or not to do what works better or what require more experience, I also got Flying the camera by Patrick Weldon, kinda like obligate reading at least once a day, is right next to my throne, too much information uhhh, anyway what works for you? comments?http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 June 16, 2004 There are several issues involved with exit timing: their count, your body, your camera suit, type of exit, aircraft set-up, airspeed. Are you having a specific issue or is this a general question?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #5 June 17, 2004 ..........my timing is pretty damn good!!!! thanks for asking... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #6 June 17, 2004 Ask 20, 4way videographers how to exit, you will get 20 answers. Some people peel and do an excellent job of it, I myself will never peel, thats not saying it isn't a good way to do it. But since you asked I can offer you my "Opinion" and how I do it. I get as far back on the step as possible, I use my right hand on the handle and my right leg on the step. Also something I have been doing recently I get as low as possible, this gives me a few 10ths of a second when the Tail hangs out of the plane, but this adds a few 10ths of a second when he doesn't, so I improvise. As far as timing, Im going to use an easy explanation, a lot of videographers dont know the difference between a point, inside center ect. If the guy in front is out of the plane a lot and the guy in the back isn't then usually the guy in front is going to exit first. Dont look for the count, most teams dont go on their count, (well actually look for the count as a reference but dont go on go, leave when the team leaves not when the count says leave) exit when the team exits. Same as when the guy closest to you (the guy in the back) is hanging outside of the plane the most, he is usually the one to exit first. And when the whole team is inside, you just go when they all go. Take into account that it takes longer to get the entire team out of the plane then so you can add a few 10ths of a second to your exit. If you timed it right then you will have to do very little on the hill, if you timed it bad then you either track as fast as you can to get back to the team (dont use your wings that only pulls you away from the team more) Or you end up right on top of the team (use your wings, if you reach to push off them your wasting surface area that could be keeping you off them). That is just my 2 cents, you can use it as a reference and find your own style. If you use the top 3 teams as a guide, the cameramen have totally different styles and ideas. The best advice I can give you, is if your on a team then your training also, I know most teams dont offer much help, but take your video home each day and watch it, grade yourself and see where you think you did good or bad, use that to change things. I can watch every video I have done and find something I would have done different, and you have the best training tool; your own video. Also watch the video at competitions, its great to see how people do things different. Use that as a reference. This is based on the otter/caravan, the skyvan/casa is a whole different story. Hope this helps and good luck. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #7 June 17, 2004 Rdutch, First off, let me say I love your current web page! Second...if a 'team videographer' doesn't know the position and characteristics of each position on a 4-way team, this might be his/her first assignment for the week. If they're serious in learning and becoming more than mediocre, that is. It helps if this cameraflyer has been -in- the 4-way as a competitor as well. They might actually know better how each piece flies and this can make their learning curve a bit more easy to absorb. You're absolutely correct in the position that every cameraflyer has a different perspective on how to exit and fly. If they have a personal cameraflyer mentor this can help as well. One that they can sit down and chat with and also allow to critique their videos. A couple of us had the extreme fortune of flying a weekend with two of the best 4-way cameraflyers on the planet....Stevie Nowak and Marc Steinbaugh...Airspeed's cameraflyers. We had to travel for this mentorship, but it was well worth it in the long run. Exit timing....study Airspeed's and the Golden Knight's videos. Watch their cameraflyer's techniques on both exits and flying over the team. They are both different from each other, but will give a newbie cameraflyer alot of information. Oh, I know there are other skilled cameraflyers, but why not learn from two of the best? (they also have videos available, so their work is yours for the asking). One more 4-way cameraflyer's insight to this page.... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BETO74 0 #8 June 17, 2004 This is exacltly what I was looking for. Quote I get as far back on the step as possible, I use my right hand on the handle and my right leg on the step. Also something I have been doing recently I get as low as possible, this gives me a few 10ths of a second when the Tail hangs out of the plane, but this adds a few 10ths of a second when he doesn't, so I improvise. ______________________________________________________________ Good, I was doing the opposite, getting as high as I could, kinda like trying to video from the top. If you timed it right then you will have to do very little on the hill, if you timed it bad then you either track as fast as you can to get back to the team (dont use your wings that only pulls you away from the team more) Or you end up right on top of the team (use your wings, if you reach to push off them your wasting surface area that could be keeping you off them). ___________________________________________________________ I have problems here..... I always have to track back on top. *** The best advice I can give you, is if your on a team then your training also, I know most teams dont offer much help, but take your video home each day and watch it, grade yourself and see where you think you did good or bad, use that to change things. I can watch every video I have done and find something I would have done different, and you have the best training tool; your own video. Also watch the video at competitions, its great to see how people do things different. Use that as a reference. __________________________________________________________ Sometimes is almost embarrasing. Just need help in one more thing, my video tends to appeared on top of the TV instead of the center, even when I'm right on top, can this be a problem with the angle that my camera sits on my helmet or more a head position, kinda like trying to arch with my head. Thanks for you helphttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #9 June 17, 2004 QuoteGood, I was doing the opposite, getting as high as I could, kinda like trying to video from the top. This can work for 8-way, so don't lose this skill. It's just not the best form for 4-way. Quote have problems here..... I always have to track back on top. How are you using your wings? Wings allow for you to create your own space as you leave -with- your team. Don't be afraid to hit them a few times (warn them that this may happen as you learn your timing skill). In fact, a good 4-way cameraflyer has hit their team at least twice in the beginning while they're learning. It allows you to push -your- envelope and experience where your limit is. Try this on an easy exit like the Meeker. Leave -with- your team, spring back, and inflate your wings. Now this is for the Meeker. There are different techniques for every exit. Don't try this with...say..."M"...Bundy....or you'll get SMACKED by the tail flyer! Or the "0"...Satellite...you'll fall beneath them as they float above you. Learn with the 'round' exits first (if your team will accommodate you, that is). Quotemy video tends to appeared on top of the TV instead of the center, even when I'm right on top, Are you -really- on top? Steep? Have another cameraflyer take a look at your footage and check it out. If so, then perhaps your head position is indeed off. I keep my head level. I know where my ring site has to be to get the shot. If your team is not in the middle of the frame....CHANGE your head position. Learn. Your ring site may not exactly match the center of the screen picture you're looking for. Believe it or not, my centered ring site (on the ground) does not match a centered site in the air. Don't know why, but I've adjusted. I use the same set-up for tandem as well, and adjust again....pictures come out just fine. Learning....it's all fun. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #10 June 17, 2004 QuoteBelieve it or not, my centered ring site (on the ground) does not match a centered site in the air. Don't know why, but I've adjusted. I use the same set-up for tandem as well, and adjust again....pictures come out just fine. What kind of sight are you using? A polarizing or concentric sight should help to fix that. It might not solve it, but thats the whole theory behind them. I make sure that my helmet is synched down on my head when I sight it up on the ground and when I'm on a skydive. It really helps to ensure that everything is right where its supposed to be. I have noticed though that my sight tends to change a whole lot depending if its really humid or not. I guess it has to do with the way the padding reacts to the extra moisture as its positioned on my head. Ahhhhh, all the variables....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #11 June 17, 2004 Lori is a kind of "special" case in that she is only comfortable using a bezel without any optics in it. So, she doesn't have either a concentric or cross, simply the bezel. Since she only has sight in one eye, she feels it is probably best not to cover up that eye too much. I kind of agree, but it means the accuracy of her sight is almost always going to be in question. She deals with it pretty well, but is constantly fooling around with it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BETO74 0 #12 June 19, 2004 Thanks guys, this is greathttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Rdutch 0 #6 June 17, 2004 Ask 20, 4way videographers how to exit, you will get 20 answers. Some people peel and do an excellent job of it, I myself will never peel, thats not saying it isn't a good way to do it. But since you asked I can offer you my "Opinion" and how I do it. I get as far back on the step as possible, I use my right hand on the handle and my right leg on the step. Also something I have been doing recently I get as low as possible, this gives me a few 10ths of a second when the Tail hangs out of the plane, but this adds a few 10ths of a second when he doesn't, so I improvise. As far as timing, Im going to use an easy explanation, a lot of videographers dont know the difference between a point, inside center ect. If the guy in front is out of the plane a lot and the guy in the back isn't then usually the guy in front is going to exit first. Dont look for the count, most teams dont go on their count, (well actually look for the count as a reference but dont go on go, leave when the team leaves not when the count says leave) exit when the team exits. Same as when the guy closest to you (the guy in the back) is hanging outside of the plane the most, he is usually the one to exit first. And when the whole team is inside, you just go when they all go. Take into account that it takes longer to get the entire team out of the plane then so you can add a few 10ths of a second to your exit. If you timed it right then you will have to do very little on the hill, if you timed it bad then you either track as fast as you can to get back to the team (dont use your wings that only pulls you away from the team more) Or you end up right on top of the team (use your wings, if you reach to push off them your wasting surface area that could be keeping you off them). That is just my 2 cents, you can use it as a reference and find your own style. If you use the top 3 teams as a guide, the cameramen have totally different styles and ideas. The best advice I can give you, is if your on a team then your training also, I know most teams dont offer much help, but take your video home each day and watch it, grade yourself and see where you think you did good or bad, use that to change things. I can watch every video I have done and find something I would have done different, and you have the best training tool; your own video. Also watch the video at competitions, its great to see how people do things different. Use that as a reference. This is based on the otter/caravan, the skyvan/casa is a whole different story. Hope this helps and good luck. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #7 June 17, 2004 Rdutch, First off, let me say I love your current web page! Second...if a 'team videographer' doesn't know the position and characteristics of each position on a 4-way team, this might be his/her first assignment for the week. If they're serious in learning and becoming more than mediocre, that is. It helps if this cameraflyer has been -in- the 4-way as a competitor as well. They might actually know better how each piece flies and this can make their learning curve a bit more easy to absorb. You're absolutely correct in the position that every cameraflyer has a different perspective on how to exit and fly. If they have a personal cameraflyer mentor this can help as well. One that they can sit down and chat with and also allow to critique their videos. A couple of us had the extreme fortune of flying a weekend with two of the best 4-way cameraflyers on the planet....Stevie Nowak and Marc Steinbaugh...Airspeed's cameraflyers. We had to travel for this mentorship, but it was well worth it in the long run. Exit timing....study Airspeed's and the Golden Knight's videos. Watch their cameraflyer's techniques on both exits and flying over the team. They are both different from each other, but will give a newbie cameraflyer alot of information. Oh, I know there are other skilled cameraflyers, but why not learn from two of the best? (they also have videos available, so their work is yours for the asking). One more 4-way cameraflyer's insight to this page.... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #8 June 17, 2004 This is exacltly what I was looking for. Quote I get as far back on the step as possible, I use my right hand on the handle and my right leg on the step. Also something I have been doing recently I get as low as possible, this gives me a few 10ths of a second when the Tail hangs out of the plane, but this adds a few 10ths of a second when he doesn't, so I improvise. ______________________________________________________________ Good, I was doing the opposite, getting as high as I could, kinda like trying to video from the top. If you timed it right then you will have to do very little on the hill, if you timed it bad then you either track as fast as you can to get back to the team (dont use your wings that only pulls you away from the team more) Or you end up right on top of the team (use your wings, if you reach to push off them your wasting surface area that could be keeping you off them). ___________________________________________________________ I have problems here..... I always have to track back on top. *** The best advice I can give you, is if your on a team then your training also, I know most teams dont offer much help, but take your video home each day and watch it, grade yourself and see where you think you did good or bad, use that to change things. I can watch every video I have done and find something I would have done different, and you have the best training tool; your own video. Also watch the video at competitions, its great to see how people do things different. Use that as a reference. __________________________________________________________ Sometimes is almost embarrasing. Just need help in one more thing, my video tends to appeared on top of the TV instead of the center, even when I'm right on top, can this be a problem with the angle that my camera sits on my helmet or more a head position, kinda like trying to arch with my head. Thanks for you helphttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #9 June 17, 2004 QuoteGood, I was doing the opposite, getting as high as I could, kinda like trying to video from the top. This can work for 8-way, so don't lose this skill. It's just not the best form for 4-way. Quote have problems here..... I always have to track back on top. How are you using your wings? Wings allow for you to create your own space as you leave -with- your team. Don't be afraid to hit them a few times (warn them that this may happen as you learn your timing skill). In fact, a good 4-way cameraflyer has hit their team at least twice in the beginning while they're learning. It allows you to push -your- envelope and experience where your limit is. Try this on an easy exit like the Meeker. Leave -with- your team, spring back, and inflate your wings. Now this is for the Meeker. There are different techniques for every exit. Don't try this with...say..."M"...Bundy....or you'll get SMACKED by the tail flyer! Or the "0"...Satellite...you'll fall beneath them as they float above you. Learn with the 'round' exits first (if your team will accommodate you, that is). Quotemy video tends to appeared on top of the TV instead of the center, even when I'm right on top, Are you -really- on top? Steep? Have another cameraflyer take a look at your footage and check it out. If so, then perhaps your head position is indeed off. I keep my head level. I know where my ring site has to be to get the shot. If your team is not in the middle of the frame....CHANGE your head position. Learn. Your ring site may not exactly match the center of the screen picture you're looking for. Believe it or not, my centered ring site (on the ground) does not match a centered site in the air. Don't know why, but I've adjusted. I use the same set-up for tandem as well, and adjust again....pictures come out just fine. Learning....it's all fun. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #10 June 17, 2004 QuoteBelieve it or not, my centered ring site (on the ground) does not match a centered site in the air. Don't know why, but I've adjusted. I use the same set-up for tandem as well, and adjust again....pictures come out just fine. What kind of sight are you using? A polarizing or concentric sight should help to fix that. It might not solve it, but thats the whole theory behind them. I make sure that my helmet is synched down on my head when I sight it up on the ground and when I'm on a skydive. It really helps to ensure that everything is right where its supposed to be. I have noticed though that my sight tends to change a whole lot depending if its really humid or not. I guess it has to do with the way the padding reacts to the extra moisture as its positioned on my head. Ahhhhh, all the variables....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 June 17, 2004 Lori is a kind of "special" case in that she is only comfortable using a bezel without any optics in it. So, she doesn't have either a concentric or cross, simply the bezel. Since she only has sight in one eye, she feels it is probably best not to cover up that eye too much. I kind of agree, but it means the accuracy of her sight is almost always going to be in question. She deals with it pretty well, but is constantly fooling around with it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #12 June 19, 2004 Thanks guys, this is greathttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
