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Auryn

Exit timing

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I am a newbie tandem/aff videographer, and I am looking for tips about the nuances of the exit...

basically, how in the hell do you know it's time to exit ???

I have done enough failed attempts at a good exit to realize that the count, well, doesn't count :)
I've been trying to go on the 'set' body language, but that still seems too late.. yet, I am aprehensive about going on the 'ready' body language..

what is it you do to know when to exit ?


Blue Skies !

Bryan

D27808

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The ancient Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu said that you don't really know how to do something until you've done it 10,000 times.

Of course, at that time in China, their numbering system only went up to 10,000, so, what he really meant was that you could do something forever and never really know all there is to know.

I don't shoot tandems or AFF, but I've spent a considerable amount of time and effort trying to dissect the 38 exits of 4-way. One thing I've learned is that each team has their own rhythm to giving the count. If you rely on leaving according to that count (leaving on "ready" or "set") and hoping to be in the correct position for "go", then you will probably be frustrated when you deal with different groups of people.

Further, even though I don't do tandems or AFF, I do know that they have a tendancy to balk quite a bit more than the average 4-way team. Meaning, if you leave early and they hesitate in the door before actually exiting, you're going to be way screwed.

What I've noticed from the tandem and AFF videos shot by folks I really like is that they have a tendancy to stay very far forward in the door and very close to the instructor/students as opposed to 4-way in which it's advantageous to hang as far back as possible. Also, the guys I really like seem to stay very close thoughout the entire exit. For this, they -can't- leave early -- they must "go on go".

Take a look at THIS video and see the work of one of the best camera flyers on the planet, Raoul Gravell. It seems like he's damn near connected to the instructor/student and again, I think the only way to really do that is to learn the rhythm of the instructor and "go on go".
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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To start: Check out Tim Wagner's input on teams and video. Part 1 and 2.


Umm, I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but neither of those articles have anything to do with freefall video technique.



Whoops. You're right. Wrong file from my internet archive.

Try THIS ONE.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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Also, the guys I really like seem to stay very close thoughout the entire exit. For this, they -can't- leave early -- they must "go on go".



True. Yet, as a newbie tandem videoflyer he's got to realize that if he's a fraction of a hair late on the 'go' he's going to end up too close to the drouge bridle.

As he starts, he might consider leaving just a fraction of a hair early and tucking his wings in (legs out) to keep him close and not blown back from the exiting tandem.

The tandem will accelerate faster and he will be left behind (and above) if he exits the way a team competitor's cameraflyer does...even if he -is- close to the door.

Nice video of Raoul's work. Like the view of the tandem/video exiting before him. This cameraflyer can exit in a freefly position (which gives a nice face shot on exit). Unless someone is very good at freeflying, they should not consider flying this way with a tandem....but once it's perfected it makes for fantastic video.

Perhaps SBS can post some pictures Raoul took of him videoing his mom on a tandem. SBS was the 1st cameraflyer. Raoul the 2nd. AWESOME pictures and video.

For AFF, it is best to trail the exit. Oh sure, you can lead it just fine....until the student balks...or decides to start the count over. Then you're (as you said) 'screwed'. ;)

Watching videos of the best in the trade, and counseling with them is the best way to learn. Then....just go up and practice it. B|

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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I haven't done any tandem vids for a while but here's a tip.
Get the exit cadence off the tandem master so you know what to expect.
Most tandems sort of pivot over the the edge of the door as they launch because they have a lot of weight to shift, so it's a sort of progressive exit.
Once you have done a few you'll get used to knowing when they are beyond the point of no return.
That's what your looking for, that's your key to go and I believe the key to close tandem exits!
I used to hang from my fully extended right arm(left hand door) and hold the side of the door and pull myself close to the tandem pair with my left arm.
I would let go with my right arm when I thought the timing was right but also keep my left arm loaded up a little as I went.
I would control the precise exit timing (and therefore remain close) with how I extended and released the plane with my left arm. Remember this is all happening over a very short time and once you let go with your right hand you ARE going.

I think the Chinese guy was right though because I don't remember noticing things in this much detail until I done lots of tandem vids and was really current at the time jumping every day.

Also like quade and itdiver said be close to the tandem in the door and wings tucked right away during exit.

Good luck

Stay Cool
http://www.waycool.com.au

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also,

as far as aff goes, i usually watch for the outside jm(from an otter or caravan) to leave. once his center of gravity leaves, the show starts. i then leave lightning quick and i am down the hill, looking up and tracking up to them. get it? if not i can clarify what i mean.
however, actual results may vary, and I would caution you about doing this off the bat, because the chances of smashing into the student and instructors is very high...,unless you do this exitr right.

if you let them pass you while you remain on the step, and follow them with your head, then let go,(the peeling exit) the worst thing that can happen this way is you tumble on exit, but you will figure that out after a few tries.

ask if you need more help.
jeff D-16906

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if you let them pass you while you remain on the step, and follow them with your head, then let go,(the peeling exit) the worst thing that can happen this way is you tumble on exit, but you will figure that out after a few tries.

ask if you need more help.
jeff D-16906



I like the peeling exit idea for AFF, I haven't thought of that.. that way I can still get a good shot of the exit, and be above them a bit so I can adjust fall rate w/ a little bit of forgiveness..

thanks !

Bryan

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Every one of our TM's have a different count it seems,, some slow, some gone after a nod, I get with him before the load, plan the jump like any other for the count, lighting, opening etc.. helps me anyways



Natural Born FlyerZ.com

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You are correct! Every tandem master I have jumped with (appox 400 tandem vids) has a little different exit count. After a while you will learn each of their "counts" and the exits will go fine. Remember that it is about the passengers safety first and GREAT video second. Its better to leave a little to early in the beginning and keep them in frame than to leave right with them and wind up in the mix while they are tumbling... I leave just as the tandem master starts to rock forward to exit (or on set and a half if you will). I fly the first two or three seconds with my hands under my rig to get the max fall rate I can. Remember that the reason you are so far away has to do with the relative wind as well as exit timing. The tandem is going to "fall" or get greater "throw" into the relative wind which means that you will need to arch harder than with a 4-way exit. Be carefull about people telling you that all you need to do is leave later to get closer. You can wind up in a very bad situation if you don't pay attention. I.E. have the flap on a strong tandem rig come open and your ring site gets caught in the 2 feet of bridel that is under there. I know this because I was lucky enough to have a REALLY heads up tandem master hold the drouge long enough for me to clear the problem, and was very lucky that I COULD clear the problem. Take baby steps in getting closer on exit and you will be fine.

Pendejo
He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the beer!

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

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