freefalle 0 #1 November 14, 2003 I'm posting this questionin order to gain some insite, please dont use it as an open invitation to flame me. I have right at 250 jumps, I have right at 100 camera jumps (yes I started earlier then some people think I should have but thats a total different topic) Since Ive started flying camera I have been especially careful, Ive taken things slowly and spen ALOT of time working with the staff camera guys at my DZ. I've gotten alot of postivie feedback and feel pretty comfortable in my ability for my level. Yesterday, I was at the DZ and there was a group putting together a 34 way, I asked if I could go and shoot video. The Organizer, whom I've jumped with and shot video for several times before, said sure. I got on the load, the jump went well, the video I shot came out pretty good if I say so my self. After the jump, the organizer came up to me and said the the DZM got with him and told him that the DZO said I could not go on anymore big ways because he felt I do not have enough jumps. I guess Im a little upset by this, the DZO has never jumped with me, he has never seen my videos and I honestly dont even think he knows how many jumps I have as I frequent more than one DZ. I intend to get with the DZO and discuss this issue further but I wanted to get some feed back from some of the folks in here.... Thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #2 November 14, 2003 QuoteI'm posting this questionin order to gain some insite, please dont use it as an open invitation to flame me. I have right at 250 jumps, I have right at 100 camera jumps (yes I started earlier then some people think I should have but thats a total different topic) Since Ive started flying camera I have been especially careful, Ive taken things slowly and spen ALOT of time working with the staff camera guys at my DZ. I've gotten alot of postivie feedback and feel pretty comfortable in my ability for my level. Yesterday, I was at the DZ and there was a group putting together a 34 way, I asked if I could go and shoot video. The Organizer, whom I've jumped with and shot video for several times before, said sure. I got on the load, the jump went well, the video I shot came out pretty good if I say so my self. After the jump, the organizer came up to me and said the the DZM got with him and told him that the DZO said I could not go on anymore big ways because he felt I do not have enough jumps. I guess Im a little upset by this, the DZO has never jumped with me, he has never seen my videos and I honestly dont even think he knows how many jumps I have as I frequent more than one DZ. I intend to get with the DZO and discuss this issue further but I wanted to get some feed back from some of the folks in here.... Thoughts? the best thing you can do is discuss it with them... just dont get mad and dont get on a power trip.. it is there drop zone and they can make whatever rules they want... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #3 November 14, 2003 Politics. There's other words for it, like organizational culture and stuff, but it boils down to personalities and politics. And there's nothing wrong with it. If you were in charge, you would want people to approach you in a certain way if they want you to give them something. So, you cruised into this DZ and took a camera slot on a 36-way. Two planes? It's possible you took a paid slot from one of the staff camera fliers who would have been on the other plane. Plus, camera fliers are all pretty much conducting business when they fly, and it's polite to check with the DZO/DZM about procedure. That flatters the DZO/DZM and is also positive for safety. You should have walked up to the manager, introduced yourself, told the fella you had X jumps with X tandems and X big ways. You were going to jump with the load organizer, the LO was cool with it, "is there anything you'd like to tell me?" It would be best if the LO did this with you, or maybe even on your behalf. LO's make money for DZ's, and most of them are well respected. So, you may have injured an ego by showing up and taking the step without checking procedure. Be patient. We all establish reputations with time. It is very VERY much worth it to take your time, as the more time you have a good reputation, the easier it is to have mistakes forgotten. If you get a flakey rep, it sometimes can follow you forever regardless of the long track record of being solid that you have. And eventually you'll be visiting a DZ to fun jump and an LO or DZM will seek you out to do some filming when they are short staffed. Having DZM's owing you favors is the BEST! Last year the Georgia Tech collegiate 4 way team asked me to video them at Eloy cause they were directed to me by a camera flier who knew me professionally. During the American Boogie the DZM asked me to film a tandem cause he was short-staffed. I got to do the DZ.big ways last year cause Bets was short staffed. Cause I was there with my gear and had a reputation as a guy who could follow the program. So, I'd suggest starting your discussion with an apology, telling the DZO/DZM what your goals are, and how would they suggest you go about achieving them? And listen and don't tell the person about other stuff you've heard. And then thank them for their instruction. Skydivers love mentoring people who listen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #4 November 14, 2003 Deuce, I value your opinion and appreicate your advise. But I didnt just show up on the DZ and push my way on the load, I've been jumping at this DZ along time, in fact its where I did my AFF, I know both the DZO and then DZM fairly well, when I got there I asked the orgainzer if they had a video slot he said no, they werent paying for a video slot, I asked if I could go, he said yes, I paid for my slot and I was not paid for the video, I went for the experience. Had they already had arrangements for a video, or if someone who was staff wanted to bump me, I would have understood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 November 14, 2003 Would you have been invited on the 34 way as a participant? Was the Organizer using the DZO/DZM as an excuse? Maybe the organizer was trying to let you down easy so someone else more experienced could have the slot. Could you have preformed as a participant on the 34 way? Maybe the video was not what the organizer really wanted. Some of the best in the world have been cut for not providing the shot asked for. Or it could be political. IMO you need to put the camera away, and get more experience before filming anythin of that size. 150 jumps in 250 total is not nearly enough to consider yourself a proficient flyer. Please don't take it personal, many (including myself at one time) think they are the execption, and are picking things up quicker than anyone else. You might, but not that fast. QuoteI honestly dont even think he knows how many jumps I have as I frequent more than one DZ Settle somewhere and get known. It helps.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 November 14, 2003 What's the largest group you've ever jumped with -without- a camera? I'm not saying that is the ultimate limiting factor, otherwise we'd never have camera on record setting big-ways, but it may be an indication of the level of experience that other people remember you as having.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teamhypoxia 0 #7 November 14, 2003 Deland... nuf said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #8 November 14, 2003 Could be political, but there is alot at stake when doing big-ways. Just because you are doing pretty well under good conditions, doesn't mean you will under less-than-ideal conditions. Experience means more than just jump numbers.Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
