meridianjumper 0 #1 March 13, 2003 I am really considering having some B-12 snaps put on my current rig. Are there any downsides to adding them to a rig that did not have them on there to begin with? Also, could a normal rigger do this or does it need to be sent to the manufacturer? Blue Skies, Jeremy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 March 13, 2003 Curious...why? You're introducing complexity and another point of failure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #3 March 13, 2003 Just out of curiosity, why? B-12s are bulkier, more expensive and need to be installed by a Master Rigger. Not to mention they drop your resale value on the rig. If you're having trouble getting into your Thread-throughs, you could have more webbing added to your leg straps to make them larger loops. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meridianjumper 0 #4 March 13, 2003 OK, my deal is that the leg straps need a bit more length added to them. During the winter, it gets a bit hard to put this thing on. Any ideas on what type of rigger would need to do this? Or should this be a manufacturer thing. Oh yeah, it is a Javelin container. Blue Skies, Jeremy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #5 March 13, 2003 Quote another point of failure. Very good point... I see hip rings as a point of failure. That is why I am backing them up with webbing.. B12 are the same... Point of failure.. Hip ring for example.. Points of failure.. #1.. The ring itself.. #2.. Stitching above the ring.. #3.. Stitching below the ring.. B12 for example... Points of failure... #1. Snap#1 #2. Snap#2 #3. Stitching above snap 1 #4. Stitching below snap 2 Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 March 13, 2003 There is the added weight of the B12 snaps and quick fit D rings being added. B12 snaps can become damaged and not properly close so you must always ensure they have spring tension to avoid having a leg strap coming undone. A good rigger should be able to do the mod. Just be sure you have comfort pads underneath the B12s and a good elastic retainer band on the leg strap to hold the excess leg strap. Most military rigs have B12s or a similar style of snap on the leg straps, they are proven and do make for getting a rig on and off really quick,especially if the possiblity of landing in water is of concern. You will find it easier to get your rig on in the winter months while wearing bulky clothing with B12s. As far as failure goes, if maintained properly you have nothing to worry about. I have seen military rigs that are constantly used and abused and very few of them need to have a B12 replaced. I have also never heard of anyone having any problems with them coming undone as long as they have spring tension. If properly installed they have about as much chance of faliure as any other portion that is stitched together on a rig. If I can sit for hours on end with a rucksack,weapon and O2 in a plane and not have a problem with them you shouldn't have any issues with the short ride to altitude and under canopy."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #7 March 13, 2003 Adding/replacing you're existing leg straps are easy if the rig is articulated and any Master Rigger with a 7-class machine should be able to handle it. As long as the leg straps are replaced to factory spec. the change is legal. If the rig isn't articulated, it's a bit more difficult to do (and more $$). If all you need is more length to get your legs through the loops, there are other ways to accomplish that that doesn't involve replacing the leg straps at all. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #8 March 13, 2003 Sell your rig and get a new one or have longer straps sewn on there."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #9 March 14, 2003 Back in the olden days (1960-1970)almost everyone had b-12 snaps. I know they can be a point of failure, but I don't recall anyone ever having trouble with them. The rig I bought back then had quick ejector hardware on leg and chest straps both. I loved them, but I know they are considered way too dangerous by today's standards. We didn't know any better back then. When I started jumping thread through leg straps, I hated them. I'd see some young feller throw his rig on and jump into each leg strap in about two seconds flat, and be ready to go. So I'd try to do the same thing and end up dancing half way across the packing area on one leg, and then almost breaking a hip on the concrete. I finally figured out how to slide the rig down to my elbows and then step into it. Much easier! To tell you the truth, I like them now, and wouldn't want to go back to b-12 hardware.....But I jump with a couple guys who have b-12 fasteners and really like them....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #10 March 14, 2003 The most comfortable rig I ever owned had reverse thread-throughs. Man oh man oh man. But if I had to choose between one wiht and one wihtout B-12's, it'd be a tough choice. I too am getting closer to having to hold onto the wall to put my rig on. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #11 March 14, 2003 >The most comfortable rig I ever owned had reverse thread-throughs. What are those? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #12 March 14, 2003 Thread-throughs with the buckle on the back instead of the front. Since they were building it anyway, I asked them to do it that way. No hardware in the crook of your legs that way. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 March 14, 2003 Hint: rest you rig on a table and slip one leg at a time into the leg straps. That's the way all of us grumpy old tandem masters get dressed. You would be better off getting your leg staprs extended: a Master Rigger task. Yes it is possible to retrofit B-12 snaps to your harness, but again that is a master rigger job that involves unstitching the hip joints, building longer leg pads, etc. Frankly, retrofitting B-12 snaps is more trouble than it is worth. Hint, as soon the black 5 cord arrives, I am am going to replace all the B-12 snaps on our tandem student harnesses with thread thrus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #14 March 14, 2003 Well, I am not a rigger, so don't take my advice as a safety recommendation. I am only 23, and I love b-12s. My first rig had them, and I ordered my new with them as well. They just make it much easier. When I land I just drop a leg strap and enjoy walking back to the hanger much more. Obviously you need to keep an eye on them, but I am not aware of any failures. I am not certain about quick ejectors, I think some military gear uses them still. I know one USAF and USPA Master Rigger that love quick ejectors. Anyway, just my $.02 but I love my b-12s.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #15 March 14, 2003 I miss b-12, because I could tack the leg straps at the right length and they never slipped.... -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
