Computer requirements and software?

[murrays 0]

Jeff,
I just looked over the entire thread again and if you were confused before you asked for advice you must be _real_ confused now. You've gotten lots of good advice but I think a lot of it has gotten pretty far afield from what you asked us for.
I think you need to sit down and think about what you want to be able to do...and then buy a system that will do that for you. (By way of background, I am a professional accountant up here in Canada and I have spent a lot of time helping clients choose and learn to use computer systems to do accounting.)
Identifying needs is the key first step.
What sort of editing do you want to do? A straightforward cleanup, titles, transitions between scenes and add some music? Or, do you want to do something more complicated?
What finished product do you want? Do you just want to export the finished video back to a tape or might you want to put them onto a DVD?
Think about what you want to end up with...and the decision of where to start will become easier.
You also have to consider your capabilities and interest in learning anything complicated. Do you have the time or inclination to learn a complicated program? Do you want something that you can plug your camcorder into and just start working with?
You have received lots of advice on ways to proceed...your analysis of your needs and capabilities should help you eliminate alternatives.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[murrays 0]

Roy,
Thanks for the information on the FCP "needs". See my post to Jeff about identifying his needs...for what he wants to do, an iBook might do it.
Back to FCP and FCExpress...I thought that the main differences were that they have left out the off-line editing and ability to deal with formats other than DV25. My impression from reading the material on Apple's website is that FCE would be a great step up (at a reasonable cost) from iMovie for someone like myself that is only interested in doing stuff in DV25. What more could you do with Premiere (excluding format issues) than FCE? What does FCP allow a person to do that can't be done in Premiere...and vice versa? I am very curious as to what circumstances would warrant a step up from iMovie to FCE or to Premiere/FCP.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[cameramonkey 0]

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Roy,

Thanks for the information on the FCP "needs". See my post to Jeff about identifying his needs...for what he wants to do, an iBook might do it.


Back to FCP and FCExpress...I thought that the main differences were that they have left out the off-line editing and ability to deal with formats other than DV25. My impression from reading the material on Apple's website is that FCE would be a great step up (at a reasonable cost) from iMovie for someone like myself that is only interested in doing stuff in DV25. What more could you do with Premiere (excluding format issues) than FCE? What does FCP allow a person to do that can't be done in Premiere...and vice versa? I am very curious as to what circumstances would warrant a step up from iMovie to FCE or to Premiere/FCP.

I think you are right. In our efforts to discuss the merits of things in general, we have lost focus on the original scope. Sorry about that... I am REALLY bad at it.

Basically, from what was explained to me, FCP has everything that Premiere has, and a few extras like multi channel color correction and other pro level tools.
FCE only handles a limited level of effects layers, limited color correction, etc. Chances are, FCE will do everything a basic skydiver will need.

I guess my main gripe about comparing premiere to FCE was the basic apples to apples argument. For what he will use it for, they will seem the same. I just hate when dissimilar things get compared as equal based on the low requirements. Last time that happened to me, I went to use a feature that I thought was there, only to be told it wasnt... "but we didnt think you would ever need that, so we didnt think you would miss it"

For skydiving videos, I think FCE (on a 12" powerbook >with 512 or more ram<) will do nicely. Imovie might be a bit thin for what he wants, but will be good to get his feet wet. One of our video guys started just that way... imovie, then upgraded to FCE, and he seems to love it. Worst case, you go grab some coffee while waiting for a clip or effect to render.

I hesitated to suggest it, because as a full time and usually VERY busy vidiot, I usually cant wait for the extra render time. I need the video, and I need it NOW. Gotta get that video delivered to the waiting student, and get in the air for the next student in line.


If he wants to go PC, any current PC with more than 512mb ram, 40gb hard disk, firewire, and a 1.8ghz processor will do the trick(windows 2000 pro seems more stable). Buy the hardware video solution so ya dont get screwed on premiere (whether you will use it or not).

If you have someone willing to train you on a particular editor, go for it. the time you save will greatly outweigh the money spent over a cheap editor that you have to struggle through on your own.

hope that helps to clear at least some of the confusion. Feel free to email me or IM me with specific questions. sometimes all this generalizing can make things more confusing.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[Cajones 0]

Applied Magic systems are a great little solution for tandem videos and such. The price is actually a bit higher than a similarly capable turnkey PC or Mac. Throw in a DVD package, and the Applied Magic solution is even higher.

What you're really getting is a no-frills editor, with exceptional stability. No internet connectivity, no USB connection to get pictures out of your digital camera, not even Solitaire.

A very good solution for some, but not all.

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[LouDiamond 1]

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What you're really getting is a no-frills editor, with exceptional stability. No internet connectivity, no USB connection to get pictures out of your digital camera, not even Solitaire.

That's why I have a computer and a laptop already


I just want to edit video without the hassle.

"CAN'T WE ALL JUST EDIT VIDEO?" LOL

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[murrays 0]

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"CAN'T WE ALL JUST EDIT VIDEO?" LOL

Not without a fight!!!

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[cameramonkey 0]

at least we arent having the usual die hard which is better argument, with neither side giving in that the other is inferior, or simply designed to do a different task.

been there too many times.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"or simply designed to do a different task. "

This is really at the core of the issue, if you are tooling up for a job, you really ought to work out what the job entails before you go out and buy the tools to to do it.
EG if you want to cut down a tree, you don't go out and buy a box of spanners. Similarly you don't go out and buy a chainsaw, then try and figure out what you can use it for.....

For most editing applications that we can reasonably foresee, a straightforward no frills firewire card is enough. eg for tandem videos you would have a 'master project' with fancy effects (if thats what is required) pre rendered so you just have to drop in your tandem footage with simple cuts and fades. I would argue that a good linear edit board operator will beat a newbie NLE operator hands down, in terms of time to final product.
If you are looking at making boogie videos, then a more specialised card maybe even a real time card may be the order of the day to reduce render waiting.
If you are 'taking this seriously' you should at least consider getting a bespoke system custom built to your spec. There are plenty of companies around that will build you a box that you can get working with in a very short time, and more importantly fix it quickly when you screw it up (consider getting laplink support as an option). You really want to be spending your time flying this, not fixing it.
If the thought of re-assigning IRQs, changing BIOS settings etc scares you, go for a custom system. The builders of these systems often offer well priced hands on training as part of the bundle, which could save you many hours in the long run.

As for for Mac vs PC issues, well its like the old 'best container' discussion....

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[cameramonkey 0]

OOOH! I almost forgot... when I said any desktop PC, I was wrong... let me stress the next sentence as best I can.... are ya listening? good... here goes.

DO NOT BUY AN OFF THE SHELF, MASS PRODUCED SYSTEM FROM ANY OF THE MAJORS SUCH AS HP OR COMPAQ!!!

I say this for one reason. CRAP. 99% of the systems that are off the shelf for the consumer have boatloads of crap memory resident software that gets in the way... you know, desktop gadgets, "productivity tools", alarm clocks, voice mail/speakerphone/fax software, etc.

Those are the worst things to have running when you are trying to build a stable system for NLE.

Sony almost fits into that category, except they seem to gear thier systems towards multimedia, so they arent quite so bad. Dell also doesnt seem to put as much memory resident crap on the PCs they build.

I recommend having a system custom built from the ground up by a local mom and pop system builder.
You (usually) dont get quite as much bang for the buck as far as bundled software goes, but sometimes those bundles just get in the way.

Do you really need Barney's fun time software, or blue's clues corrupting your NLE anyway?

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Those are the worst things to have running when you are trying to build a stable system for NLE."

Microsoft's "Find fast" is a pain in the pooper too.....

Find, download, install and run Enditall....it clears up a load of background shit that may be running invisibly...

"You (usually) dont get quite as much bang for the buck as far as bundled software goes, but sometimes those bundles just get in the way."
Agreed an dthe value of free software? Well its only valuable if you actually have a use for it...

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Deuce 1]

OK. I installed the full version of Premiere 6.5, and XP pro.

The whole thing crashed the entire system, and I had to rewrite both the C and D drives. I suspect it had something to do with completing the project in the LE version and then trying to write it to MPEG2 in the full version.

I repartitioned both drives to have the appropriate amount of room, and I'm starting over. Not really a bad thing, cause with the help of several of the pros here, I'm way ahead of the game.

Lordy. Computers: it was the best of times, it was the worst of times....

[LouDiamond 1]

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OK. I installed the full version of Premiere 6.5, and XP pro.

The whole thing crashed the entire system, and I had to rewrite both the C and D drives. I suspect it had something to do with completing the project in the LE version and then trying to write it to MPEG2 in the full version.

I repartitioned both drives to have the appropriate amount of room, and I'm starting over. Not really a bad thing, cause with the help of several of the pros here, I'm way ahead of the game.

Lordy. Computers: it was the best of times, it was the worst of times....

Fuck that, where's my video Biotch? J/K Deuce. Don't you wish you HAD paid attention in Spanish class now?

PS: I was thinking the same thing you are about the Batrac, way cool set up IMO

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[JJohnson 0]

Oh yeah...you guys are scaring me now. The Mac is looking better by the minute!!!!

I actually stoppped and checked out the G4 yesterdday. Pretty impressive stuff. Jury is still out. Once I decide, rest assured you boys will be the first to know....by the multitude of new questions I ask.

Thanks,

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[Deuce 1]

JJ, my bad. I backed into digital editing using the weenie programs that came with my capable computer. You can't put an hour's worth of clips together with that kind of software.

It's been a challenging learning process, but the problems I've been having are from trying to get software to do what it wasn't designed to do.

All this bin-filling and clip editing, and soundtrack putting on has been real interesting, the only problem is the folks who want their big way videos! Instead of getting six raw clips of their jumps, they're getting 16, from three angles, zoo jumps, and nignoggery. Assh*les like that Army guy, poo-diamond, are pissed now, but they'll be fine when they get the fricking thing.

And I'll be a hell of an amateur slasher video editor

[LouDiamond 1]

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JJ, my bad. I backed into digital editing using the weenie programs that came with my capable computer. You can't put an hour's worth of clips together with that kind of software.

It's been a challenging learning process, but the problems I've been having are from trying to get software to do what it wasn't designed to do.

All this bin-filling and clip editing, and soundtrack putting on has been real interesting, the only problem is the folks who want their big way videos! Instead of getting six raw clips of their jumps, they're getting 16, from three angles, zoo jumps, and nignoggery. Assh*les like that Army guy, poo-diamond, are pissed now, but they'll be fine when they get the fricking thing.

Step it out troop, your moving like pond water. Old people fuck faster than you move. Reach down in that jelly filled, kool-aid pumping heart of yours and move out and draw fire before I give you a Kiwi injection.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Deuce 1]

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Step it out troop, your moving like pond water. Old people fuck faster than you move. Reach down in that jelly filled, kool-aid pumping heart of yours and move out and draw fire before I give you a Kiwi injection.

Goodness! How rude! Neither my Sergeant Instructor, nor my Drill Sergeant were allowed to talk to me in that manner when I attended Marine Corps PLC.

None of that demeaning "incentive PT" either.

My!

[RevJim 0]

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Not to confuse the issue, but my hands on experience is if you are going to use premiere, DONT upgrade to XP... Go with 2000 pro. I have heard quite a few people having compatibility issues with premiere and XP.

I totally agree here. Though i'm just starting to dabble in skydiving video, I have been editing on my home pc for a few years now. I started with Premiere 6.0 and have since went to 6.5.

I've had it running on W98, W98SE, W2000, XP, and then back down to W2000. I have never seena window$ os as stable as 2000. It's gonna be like pulling teeth to get me to try and new os. Premiere 6.5 runs very smoothly on it also. Last reboot was 4 months ago, and that was from a long power outage.

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For instance, I talked to one guy who had the EXACT same PC as me, the only differences were he was using XP, and I was using 2000. My system was bulletproof (well, as much as you can on a mickeysoft product) and he could barely keep his running. He downgraded and now it works perfectly.

That's not just Premiere on XP, that's just about any resource heavy application. XP is a true system hog, and doesn't like to share well. Most programs running under XP get stuck in virtual memory no matter the amout of RAM you have, and Premiere does not do very well there.

Stick to W2000, and seriously consider a box with dual Pentium 3 Xeons.

Edit to add: If you are gonna use XP, disable "fast user switching", if you have more than one user set up on your computer, that is. Fast user switching keeps all a users programs running even after he/she logs off and a new user logs on. Big system hog!

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1