Angle for Tandem Video

[bogwarrior 0]

Hi,

I used to video Tandems with my camera angled up by fifteen degrees but have since moved to a system where the camera is line of sight. I do not use a camera suit.

My problem is that with the camera angled up I used to be able to get in low on the tandem and look up so that the passengers body filled the frame. This is proving difficult now that I have changed angles ( die to a complete equipment overhaul ) .

My Question :

Does anybody have any advice / EXPERIENCE filming belly to Earth with line of sight equipment ...what suit, cothing do you wear ?

Blue Skies

examples of the type of thing i did with the old camera and am aiming for again ( essentially I think its learning a new body position ) are on this website

http://homepage.eircom.net/~mercurytechnologies/

[Deuce 1]

Yeah, I had experience with line-of-sight on my Hawkeye. BAD EXPERIENCE.

My DZ uses Vectors. They put the tandem couple in a slight head-down orientation. I had a Tony C-wing suit and line of site and I could not get low enough to get video that competed with the other camera fliers. I could get the customers face and the TM's face, but I wasn't as low as to get the belly of the customer. Since the customer could see the other video being dubbed, they were a little disappointed with the framing. (I make it up with fluffing)

I sent my Tony suit back to be modified to a D wing (bigger, attaches at bottom of arm, not as useful for sitflying), and re-drilled my gear to orient it up about 30 degrees (like the other belly down fliers).

With the old set-up when I got low enough to get the framing I wanted I was craning my head back so far that I was backsliding. I want to master belly down tandem video before I progress to doing it sitfly.

One of the video gurus told me I'd be fine if I went to a DZ where they used Strong tandems, cause they supposedly fall in a more head-up orientation. (He was dogging me)

In order to shoot with line of sight equipment, you're really gonna have to "hang" on that wing with your neck cranked way back, or you have to do it sit.

I'll get my new suit back next week, and I'll let you know if it fixed the problem. It may not, BECAUSE I SUCK.

[kopelen 0]

I shoot both strong and vector tandems and have not had any difficulty shooting either with a tony c wing and freefly pants. My helmet is set so that its in line and not adjusted for any angle. I guess it just takes a while to get used to this. We always stress shooting the student since its their time on tv not the tandem masters.

[Zlew 0]

I also like the really low angle on tandems. If you are not low, most of the studetns, even on strongs and racers, will not look UP at you, thus you get the tops of their heads and a great shot of the tandem master. When you get low you get both faces...no matter where the student looks.

I learned real fast to use my wing suit even on fast tandems. I have great range anyway, and I use my wings more to allow me to get the right angle than to adjust fall rate. It's hard to get a real steep angle and pitch up without wings.
My camera is on line with my line of view (not tilted up or down), and I have no problems.... but unless i"m shooting POV RW, I always use my wings to make sure I can make the angle.

Z

[Deuce 1]

You bet. I know that my camera flying skills have a long way to go, my last outing was really frustrating because I just could not hang from my wing well enough.

Clay shoots tandems with a C wing jacket and jeans, and his cameras are set about 25 degrees up.

Yes. It's all about the student.

Can you confirm what I heard about the Strong rigs keeping the heads further up?

[Spy38W 0]

Quote

Can you confirm what I heard about the Strong rigs keeping the heads further up?

It's true, if you have the chance, look at the drogue attachment points on a Vector vs. Strong. I'm not sure how the Sigma compares as I haven't seen one in quite a while, and wasn't paying attention to that when I did see it

--
Hook high, flare on time

[PhreeZone 20]

I shoot at a 0 angle since thats what I use to freefly with too. I am able to sink low on the tandem's I've played with at tilt the head. Its a neck strain but withthe wings its not bad at all. I'm wanting to try one on my back soon too. Its not the easiest, but 0 works great for doing more then just tandems. 0 is the best I've found for freefly and over the top RW. If anyone disagrees, let me know.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Deuce 1]

I agree, Phree. For over-the-top anything I think zero is probably best. I'll see here pretty quick. I figure I've traded cranking my neck back on tandems for burying my chin in my chest on four-way, etc. I'm concentrating on tandems now, so that's a fair trade, I think.

[JGarcia 0]

I film both Vector and Strong Tandems and I can tell you guys that there is a significant difference between the angles of these two systems. It is a lot easier to get a better angle on Strongs. It took me a while to learn how to use my wings and legs to get extremely steep on Vectors. I fly mostly on my belly with C-wing camera Jacket over an RW suit with booties or over a freefly suit, depending on my mood. My cameras are mounted on top of a Bat-Rack, so there's 0 degree tilt.
When I first started, I thought it was nearly impossible to get the angle on the Vectors while belly to earth. But through experience, I can tell you that it is possible and you don't have to kill your neck trying to do it. Use wings to set you up and legs to keep you from back sliding.
The Sigma systems are more comparable to the Strong systems...because the bridle attatchment "point" is further towards the reserve than the older Vector systems which have the bridle attatchment at the bottom of the container.
--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[Deuce 1]

Thanks Jairo, I was SO frustrated trying to get steep on those tandems. Nice to know it's a challenge for the big dogs too.

[JGarcia 0]

OHHH, something I just thought of that helps <>: How much do you weigh? I ask because I only weigh 165 lbs without gear and found that using a weight belt (I use a "lead-belly") when fiming tandem passengers that outweigh me by more than 10 pounds and are shorter than me (therefore less drag on the Tandem pair).
It's nearly impossible to get the critical angle needed with vector tandems when you've gotta fly with your wings collapsed, arching like a mo' fo' to keep up with them. Ever since I discovered this, I'll look at the student, if they out-weigh me AND are short, I know they'll haul ass. So I'll slap on 5 to 10 puounds depending on the severity of our height/weight differences and the jump is a breeze. Remember, without the wing's help, you won't be able to achieve the critical angle without flying in a sit or back...unless you can swivel your head 180 degrees. Your videos/pics will definately improve if you don't have to think of how you're flying because you can put all of your attention to framing and lighting.
...besides, landings are always more fun when you're loaded with lead.
--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[Deuce 1]

I'm 6' 180. I was dying trying to get cranked right on the light ones. The faster the better for me. I have that feeling like the light bulb is going to go on really soon on one of these jumps and I'm going to have that "OH! That's what they're talking about!" feeling. I'm working harder than I should, and I know it's because there's some critical part of this I haven't figured out yet.

[YahooLV 0]

Sigma is a nice rig to shoot. Although, I've only shot a few, they were at a pleasant angle to work with.

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[diverds 0]

Quote

look at the drogue attachment points on a Vector vs. Strong. I'm not sure how the Sigma compares as I haven't seen one in quite a while

The Sigma drouge has a more centered attachment point like the Strong rig. Should be similar as far as angle in freefall.

Skydive Radio

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

BECAUSE I SUCK.

Hey, you stole quades line!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Pablito 0]

My video Experience has been always shooting Sigmas. What I really like from them, is that they put the student in a more natural arch than the Old Vectors and the Strongs. It really help me out at the beginning when i didn't have a wing suit.
Now I jump a Merlin A-Wing suit and it make my life so easier, It is a shorty (freefly background).
My camera set up is at 0º. It a bit hard to get use to the neck thing but after that no problems at all.
Just my 2cents
Cielos Azules para siempre
Pablito

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[SkyPsycho 0]

Quote

Yes. It's all about the student.
Can you confirm what I heard about the Strong rigs keeping the heads further up?

i have lots of experience with vector and strong, the drogue attachment point on the strong definitely keeps them up more, the vector more head low. i also always seem to have to keep my legs out almost as if the strong is in a slight backslide. i can try to dig up a couple pics of both to show the difference and post em here, ill probably have to cap a couple stills of some old vids.

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