slider stow

[MrHixxx 0]

Rigging opinions wanted here. The attached photo is a common slider stow design. The large loop of shockcord goes around the entire reserve top flap assembly on my wings when I close it. The small loop is used to loop around the slider and ball to hold it in place. I would like rigger's opinions of any safety issues with the setup.

thanks, Jon

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[miller 0]

Consider a few different things----

what happens if you cutaway after stowing your slider? (is that bungie going to stretch enough to release from around the slider and let your trailing main go),,, this might be more of an issue if you use an RSL and you cut away after your slider is stowed and your main gets hung up by the stow, but your risers still release and fire your reserve

is that bungie that goes around the top reserve flap going to interfere with anything like your RSL, pin, guide rings, etc...especially when it's under load and might shift around

is there any possible way that part of the reserve system could get hung up on the small bungie and/ or ball in the event of a reserve deployment?

is that little ball flapping around in freefall going to beat the hell out of the back of your helmet (probably not from the looks of the system, but if it was at all loose it would probably hurt real nice)

my suggestion: rig that contraption up to your container and then stow a rolled up dish towel or something to simulate your slider being stowed, and then pull like hell and see if that thing comes undone.

anyway, words for thought

mike

[darkwing 5]

Nice idea, but I don't like it. Too many unknowns. Issues with reserve deployment. I'm a minimalist, and it isn't minimal.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[rigging65 0]

I'll start this by saying the following: THIS POST REPRESENTS MY OPINIONS ON MY PERSONALLY TESTED EQUIPMENT ONLY. I DO NOT ADVOCATE OTHER PEOPLE USING THIS INFORMATION IN IT'S CURRENT FORM TO CHANGE THEIR GEAR CONFIGURATIONS!

I've used a setup like the one you're talking about before (actually just borrowed a buddy's rig that had it) and played around with it a bit on the ground, it seemed to work well.

I can't use it on my current rig (Infinity) as the top flap is too wide, but I would if I could.

What I've done is to bartack a ball (old Vector RSL ball) onto the yoke tape of my rig. I attached a loop on the trailing edge of the slider and have a rubberband larksheaded onto that. After I get everything opened up and flying, I simply loop the rubberband over the ball. It works well.

To be honest, it doesn't release as well as I'd ideally like with tension on it (ie - as on a cutaway). On the other hand, with my loadings and the rate I come out of the sky, my battle plan doesn't include me cutting away my main after I get it flying and everything stowed. IMO When flying canopies with very fast descent rates, some of the rules change.

There are just very, very few scenarios that I can come up with when I'd have time AND altitude to cutaway after getting everything in landing configuration and starting my decent. Anything at low altitude will find me trying to add more Nylon over my head, not removing it (just my personal choice...kind of a fall back to my CRW education).

With this in mind, I don't mind the extra security of this method. I understand the risks and I accept them as they are. I also jump a stowless main D-bag, something lots of folks think is nuts, but it works great and I love it. I think it has more positives than negatives for me, but that's because I designed it, tested it and understand it. I also use snaps on my toggle instead of velcro, I like it, it works and it's low maintenance. Is it perfect? No. But, again, I understand it and I choose to use them as an option. (Isn't being a rigger great??!!??)

Educate yourself and make your decisions off that education. Just be aware of where you collect your data from!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[SkySlut 0]

I have read the other thread about this. I have a similar set up, minus the bungee to wrap around the slider. I have only one bungee that stays on the reserve flap. I have a piece of material that is sewn on to my slider. I then attatch a large rubber band on that piece of material. Once I am open, I wrap the rubber band around my slider once and onto the ball. Very easy to do and will come off easily. Stays on, and keeps the slider out of my vision. Every rigger that I have talked to prefer this method to any velcro.

[SPY 0]

Another idea: would it be suitable to make a removable slider? Imagine a slider with a system similar to the split sliders had some years ago but with two split systems, one on each sides, so after opening the fabric would be removable and could be put inside the jumpsuit, leaving only the grommets and the tape between them on the risers(just like cross connectors). It would gives a better peripherical vision and couldn't reinflate.

Please pardon my weird english...

S-P
===========================

[rigging65 0]

A removable slider setup exists. Basically it's a two ring system at each of the slider "grommets" that allows the fabric to be taken off and only leaves a ring floating atop each riser on the line group.

It's kind of a cute idea, but it's a pain to reset each time and is a bit overkill for most jumpers.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[billdo 0]

Quote

Rigging opinions wanted here.

I have never used any kind of slider stowe, until I went straight to my rigger and had him sew "stoppers" onto my front risers right by the three rings. After collapsing I pull the slider behind my hear and it's locked down without having to do anything else. Just pull it down and it stays down behind the head.

The tabs he made were essentially doubled over webbing sewn lengthwise on the slider, with only the top side tacked on, so the grommets easily slide down over them, but not up against them (takes a very, very small effort to get slider back over them once on the ground).

Please give this a thought.

[Merrick 0]

Quote

The tabs he made were essentially doubled over webbing sewn lengthwise on the slider, with only the top side tacked on, so the grommets easily slide down over them, but not up against them

I'd like to see a picture of this if possible, maybe even get some specs on the modification I can give my rigger. Since I put slinks on my new canopy it's very hard for me to keep the slider behind my head. I wear a Z1 and open the face shield after I'm open, the slider will slide up the back of my helmet and close the sheild... I hate that! lol I'm not real big on hooking it to my jumpsuit/helmet/or even my rig... this sounds like a pretty good alternative.

Blues!

Merrick

[hookitt 1]

I think he meant sewn to the riser... I'll draw a picture and post it.

Edit to include picture: Here is one Variation. Simple but it works. Sewn to the front riser 1/2 inch to an inch above the confluence.
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My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Rdutch 0]

Quote

Quote

Rigging opinions wanted here.

I have never used any kind of slider stowe, until I went straight to my rigger and had him sew "stoppers" onto my front risers right by the three rings. After collapsing I pull the slider behind my hear and it's locked down without having to do anything else. Just pull it down and it stays down behind the head.

The tabs he made were essentially doubled over webbing sewn lengthwise on the slider, with only the top side tacked on, so the grommets easily slide down over them, but not up against them (takes a very, very small effort to get slider back over them once on the ground).

Please give this a thought.

I also have that design and works great, but I have a side mounted camera and a ringsite, that likes to catch the slider when I look around. So I have the Ball design also, which holds my slider out of the way better. The initial design that this post is about is actually better, because it would allow your slider to come free easier in a cutaway than breaking a rubber band, but they all use minimal force to remove. Relative Workshop estimates that a reserve pc pulls about 100lbs, the skyhook tests show that a cutaway canopy pulls harder and faster than a reserve pc, so the question is will a cutaway canopy, especially a previously inflated canopy with probably line twists, pull hard enough to break a rubber band, or unstow a slider fashioned with the loop design. I fashioned a loop today and tried it out by placing my slider in it and pulled it out with minimal effort. Having not jumped it yet, the only problem I could see is, it came out so easy I dont think it will work good enough to hold my slider down. I might have to make the loop smaller, but I'll decide that after I test it.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[billdo 0]

Thanks for the drawing Hook, I'm short a digital camera, but what you drew is one way I've seen this done. Actually mine are lengthwise and only tacked down on the top part, so they don't project outside the riser webbing. grommets easily slide over but then the little webbing-finger stops it from going back up. Either way works fine.

Blue Skies

[Samurai136 0]

Jon, I thought about your design at work. I think the small loop needs to be just the right size. Too small/tight and it may not release the slider in a cutaway. Too large/loose and it wouldn't hold the slider.

The only safety issue I can think of is: would the slider be released in a scenario where someone flies thru your main canopy ,shredding it, and is not wrapped? Would the main present enough drag to pull the slider clear in this scenario?

Additionally, anyone who wanted one made should understand the risk of a main/reserve entanglement if the slider isn't cleared from the keeper. I wouldn't make one for someone w/ an RSL ...

Overall I like the design. I'm thinking I could make a few for myself out of those vending machine super-balls...

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[hookitt 1]

I'll try to draw that type also... The kind you mentioned are on my risers now. The ones I drew, take no effort and are easy to make. the Vertical ones accasionally take you manually pulling the type 4 over the Grommet of the slider.

either way.. I'll draw it when I get a chance..

Cheers

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[cpoxon 0]

I imagined something like this...

[rigging65 0]

God, I've already got so much crap on my risers...that's what I need, more stuff hanging off them!

Actually, I think (for some) this is a good way to go, I know folks who jump that configuration...some like it, some don't. It all comes down to what works for you!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[hookitt 1]

Quote

God, I've already got so much crap on my risers...that's what I need, more stuff hanging off them!

What do you have "hanging" off your risers that this could be a hinderance? I'm not sure if you're serious Or that you just don't like it? ...(rephrased... don't want them for your risers)

Thanks cpoxon for saving me from drawing it ..Whew! (seriously) That's exactly what I have.

One note: the bottom of the tab should be about a 1/2 inch from the confluence wrap.

Cheers
-

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[rigging65 0]

Quote

What do you have "hanging" off your risers that this could be a hinderance? I'm not sure if you're serious Or that you just don't like it? ...(rephrased... don't want them for your risers)

Not so much a hindrance, just more 'bulk'. I've got removable Triples (which creates bulk just above the 3-ring, metal riser inserts, snap-fold toggles, drive loops, RSL rings, a toaster, you know the list just goes on...

Actually, I like the webbing-flap stops. All the ones I've seen/built have had plastic inside them which tends to get tired over time (or crack). I saw a guy once with double type XVII, but that made my CReW risers look thin!

Like I've said before...it's what you like. Maybe if my risers were more "streamlined" and less "rigger-fied" I'd like them more.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[hookitt 1]

Removable Triples?
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My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[rigging65 0]

Yeah, removable Third Leg risers. They're set up so that they can be used either as conventional risers or have the third legs looped on...all in the field in about 2 minutes! Nice little design, if I do say so myself, but they are a bit more bulky that if you built the Third Leg right in.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Merrick 0]

Quote

I imagined something like this...

On this Pic, would it be necessary to sew the catch on front & rear risers, or just front?

Blues!

Merrick

[hookitt 1]

Just the front

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[MrHixxx 0]

I played around with the design a little more today. The first design wasn't really intended to detach at the small loop, it was to work soley by the large loop sliding off the top flap. My thinking being to get the whole business away with the main (98 sq. ft. pilot chute style)with a cutaway and then reserve deployment. If I have stowed my slider and done something to function my main after, things will have to happen fast as I am surely unfortunately low.
However, if your thinking is that you would like the system detachable at the small loop too without a reserve deployment. I came up with the attached design. The small loop goes around 3/4 the circumference of the ball which holds it well unless it gets a good 20lbs of pressure which can be adjusted by the size of the small loop.

-Jon

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when