We just exited from a 25 sq.ft. hole

[Royd 0]

We end up scattered over a 1/2 acre of sky.
Then we end up spending half of the dive getting everyone back together.

It's my contention that we should be able to launch a no grip exit and still remain within a few feet of each other, or at least in the same tube of air, depending on exit timing.

Any thoughts?

[rehmwa 2]

A lot of people have spent a lot of time and practice to be able to do just your contention on a regular basis.

Keep your expectations in line with the talent you have on the dive.

Maybe this is less of an expectation and more of a goal for your group.

{and, some people may not have that goal. Their idea of fun is less pressure and more zoomie time. "And there's nothing wrong with that" any more than there's nothing wrong with wanting to be as good as one can too}

later

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[darkwing 5]

How many people? 1/2 acre isn't that much. When I organize I very often have exits no-grip, for two reasons, first, it gives people more chance to fly, and second, it gives them a better view of how well they actually exit-- timing and placement. Just like any exit, it is all about timing and placement. Many people have illusions about their timing and placement--and those illusions evaporate on no-grip exits.

Another reason to do no-grip exits, a chunk that funnels is much harder to recover from.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[Royd 0]

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How many people? 1/2 acre isn't that much. When I organize I very often have exits no-grip, for two reasons, first, it gives people more chance to fly, and second, it gives them a better view of how well they actually exit-- timing and placement. Just like any exit, it is all about timing and placement. Many people have illusions about their timing and placement--and those illusions evaporate on no-grip exits.

Another reason to do no-grip exits, a chunk that funnels is much harder to recover from.

No more than six people. I think that some people, especially divers, just let the wind blow them around.

I know that it's always easier to say than do, but you should have the base in your sights at all times and flying toward it.

I just recognize the problem and am looking for tips and suggestions.

[rehmwa 2]

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I just recognize the problem and am looking for tips and suggestions.

tell everyone to fly better and insist they buy your slot until they do

it's also a great way to make friends

(seriously, if the group is serious, set the expectations during the dirt dive - and recognize that most people are really trying to best of their current ability. But talking it over can sometimes reinforce that. Anything more and you'll put people off. Personal skills progressions are a tough thing to broach unless there is a team commitment and 2 way discussions.

If there's no commitment, then bring it up once, don't expect it to get better right away and let it go.

Other options - personally fund a tunnel camp for the team; do two ways with people to bring their skills up; work with smaller groups; do a LOT of free launches with video; get a big way coach to advise on best ways to exit in these situations; practice)

When diving, I'll leave with a slight tuck so I don't go over too much, then extend into a dive - I never lose sight of the base and it's only about the first 2 seconds of the exit if that.

what specifically do you want tips on? Flying/exiting techniques? or just communication and coaching advise? Maybe, start with the areas you think that YOU are having flying issues with - and work on that before working on the others' games?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[darkwing 5]

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...I just recognize the problem and am looking for tips and suggestions.

Put people in their exit positions and explicitly discuss what they will do and SEE on exit. Practice the count lots, and make sure everyone goes together. Make sure everyone knows how hard and in what direction they launch themselves, how they place their body in the airstream, what they are doing with their arms and legs, and where their eyes are looking. On the ground debrief what everyone saw, and how they perceived their own exit.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[elightle 8]

Hi, Royd.

First of all, don't believe everything you read in these forums. Coaching and big-way camps are the best sources of information, but you can still get some good advice from the forums.

Everybody SHOULD be able to fly on the same relative wind. But divers sometimes get so jacked up on big-way exits that they forget to present their chests to the relative wind out the door. Just remind the divers to do this before you line up when you're giving your pep talk. Tell them to "twist" toward the wing as they exit.

Remind the floaters to present to the wing too. Remind front floaters to push out and away so they have their own column of air. Inexperienced front floaters often collide with the middle floater or base if they don't.

Of course, there's no substitute for practice .

-Ed

[billvon 3,176]

> It's my contention that we should be able to launch a no grip exit and
>still remain within a few feet of each other, or at least in the same tube of
>air, depending on exit timing.

It is definitely doable. To do it:

Work out a chunk launch; do it until it always works.

Now put everyone in the same positions and have them do exactly the same thing, without grips. Have the inside people push against the floaters on exit. Have the floaters leave with the same stagger. Same presentation, same timing. That will get everyone fairly close.

But getting the chunk exit to work first is key there.

[kallend 2,231]

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timing and placement. Just like any exit, it is all about timing and placement. Many people have illusions about their timing and placement--and those illusions evaporate on no-grip exits.

.

Every tenth of a second miscue converts into 15 - 20 feet of separation in the air that you have to make up.

Rule of thumb in 10-way speed is that every 1/10 second delay adds 1 second to the completion time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[elightle 8]

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Have the inside people push against the floaters on exit.

Good point, Bill. Actually, good points all around. An exit without grips should work the same as a chunk. I hate video of big-way exits where it looks like the plane is spewing chunks.

Blues! --Ed