Random A slots and B slots

[Spike 0]

I fly tail and I'm trying to work out what are the A and B slots for the different randoms. Can anyone tell me what they are or where I can find an article that does?

Sorry if there's already a thread on this, I did search for a few terms but didn't find much that was helpfull.

Cya

[Ron 10]

Most of the time there are not that many B slots.

Depending on how many jumps you plan on makeing...I would not really look for a lot of B's...Maybe 2 Adders, but I would not really look at to many more.


Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[weid14 0]

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Most of the time there are not that many B slots.

Depending on how many jumps you plan on makeing...I would not really look for a lot of B's...Maybe 2 Adders, but I would not really look at to many more.


Ron

well, that depends on your continuity plan, right? slot switching blocks will require the piece with memory to fly "B" slot something or other at some point. if you're talking straight randoms, "B" is a potential (OC/IC on wing), "C" (rare - tail on OC), "F" can be built a number of ways, "K", "L", "N" (IC/OC in cat piece), "Q" (can be built a number of ways).

[Spike 0]

Junior compettitions, so I'm trying to figure the randoms, its going to be a while yet before I try to get my head around blocks.

[Albatross 0]

If you are competing in the rookie or junior class focus on building the blocks from you A slot. While it is faster to build some of the B, AA and so on formations, it is ALWAYS faster to build the formations clean. Get the As down clean and then worry about Bs.

Chris

[RozeAY 0]

What are "A" slots? They're just the way things were first done. Just because certain randoms and blocks were built and turned a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it can't be done a different way. Ron and Dave are probably going to yell at me :-) but we don't necessarily have a specific "A" slot. Sure we build things the traditional way most often but anytime there is an easier way to build a random we'll do it in a heartbeat. Its no fun if you don't try and do things differently. We've built different B, C, E, F, G, H, J, L, N, and Qs :-)

[Ron 10]

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Ron and
Dave are probably going to yell at me :-)

Oh baby...how could I yell at you? You would just turn those doe eyes on me and I would turn to putty..

Ok, now that I have gotten the important flirting out of the way...

There are a few things to think about:
If you have the time/jumps you can have some pretty crazy engineering.. The French have no continuity at all.. they build what is the fastest (Which in itself IS a continuity plan).

However, this means you have to train A LOT to see everything in every slot. On a 300 jump training plan you are only going to see each exit 7 to 8 times. so you can't plan to have 3 different types of exits of each formation...Sometimes you have to fire and forget an exit.

A large number of teams..Including Majik have "A" slots...Solly has said that the familiarity of your place in the formation can help you with the confidence and in the speed of a skydive...Don't believe me, do a random jump in A slot, then rotate the formation so Front is now IC IC cenrer is rear ect....And do the same jump...Its fun, and you will se that it will not go as well.

So "A" slots are a good thing to have.....A few "B"'s are good (such as adder and Stair step) But with a limited training plan, and a new team...It would be better to just have mostly "A" slots.

My new team we have no mirror image jumps..We take a double slot switchers. Just another way to handle the dive pool. But we are planning 300 jumps, and 20 hrs tunnel. So we have some time to do this, and all of our guys are cross trained from prior teams.

So you really need to look at # of jumps/Tunnel time, and prior experiance.

Get a coach.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[RozeAY 0]

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However, this means you have to train A LOT to see everything in every slot. On a 300 jump training plan you are only going to see each exit 7 to 8 times. so you can't plan to have 3 different types of exits of each formation...Sometimes you have to fire and forget an exit.

Hopefully we'll have about 350-400 training jumps this year. Unfortunately, all out of a King Air with the exception of 2 days of exit camps. We chose to launch one exit for every jump. So naturally when it comes around to meets we're only launching A slot formations. Even then we'll launch more round and stable formations depending on the first point since we don't get much exit practice this year. Therefore for us, we don't have to worry about seeing everything from the launch.

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Don't believe me, do a random jump in A slot, then rotate the formation so Front is now IC IC cenrer is rear ect....And do the same jump...Its fun, and you will se that it will not go as well.

I completely agree with you. In fact, our first training weekend we did repeaters and the front piece switched slots on them so we could see the entire dive pool from both slots. With the excpetion of the blocks we were training for the first time, things naturally were slower in our B slots than our A slots.

But our last tunnel camp with Shannon and Joey we focused on the slot switch and mirror blocks. So we got to do a lot of random work with the front piece switched, which has been a help.

But overall we are a very young team and have been doing things every way possible from the beginning. This has allowed us to be very versatile in how we engineer dives. And since we don't have hundreds of jumps doing things only one way, doing things in our B slots, while slower, isn't a drastic difference from our A slots.

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So you really need to look at # of jumps/Tunnel time, and prior experiance.

Get a coach.

So far this year we've had 4 hours with Shannon and Joey. We have another 3 in August. In addition, Kyle Collins has been helping us out a lot back here in Atlanta. Needless to say we get the "versatility" way of thinking from Kyle.

In our situation we've been doing things as many ways as possible since we've started. It works for us and its been an advantage. Granted we're not Majik or any of the other top teams. But we have managed to go from a 2.8 in the A class our first meet exactly one year ago to a 12ish average in the AAA class this year.

But I do agree with you that depending on the amount of time you have to train that it might be better to stick with A slots. But then again it just depends on the personality of your team and what works for you. :-)

--
Allison

[Albatross 0]

I agree that moving things to a B slot make it slower. I think that it is something that can be minimized with good mental work and visualization because the formation is the same just your sight picture is different.

Now bottom line like Allison, Ron and the others have said learn one slot, one way to build a formation then think about other builds. You will build a familiar formation cleaner and faster thatn an odd one and thus unless you have a lot of TOB you will actually lose time by building an unfamiliar "faster random.

Chris

[Ron 10]

Well, you have done FANTASTIC over the last year.

But I think the most important part of my whole post was me hitting on you...Which you just flat out ingnored....

Geeze...



Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[RozeAY 0]

You know I have nothing but love for ya :-)

[weid14 0]

now I'm feeling left out... and since you already knew I'd yell at ya, I won't bother

[btucker 0]

thanks for asking my question! Tail is my slot this year too. Some good answers.

- for aussie inter league we used to switch exits for [some] blocks so the centres would end up in the centre.

[Spike 0]

No worries Ben, and thanks to those who know better and gave some good advice.

Entered 1st competition last weekend, 14 out of 19 and pretty happy with flying compared to many of the other teams. Especially seeing how out of control some of the quicker teams were. I know we'll build speed as we get more experienced. Right now, slower is faster works for us.

Ben do you ever jump out at Brisbane Skydiving Centre, over at Willowbank? If you do, say Hi from Colin (AFF 08/01 - Just get out the f^cking door you Limey B'stard) to Scoffey the DZO for me.

I'm new to tail and I've found the exits a bit challenging. On launching the exit, I find the trick is getting the timing exactly right and being low on the formation. For me I have to "feel" like I'm leaving early, to get it right. Though watching the vids I see that actually means I'm leaving just right. If I leave when it "feels" right then I'm too late and I end up high, stuffing it up.

[Emma 0]

Hi Spike,
Not many junior teams bother to train the B slot randoms. Maybe the O and J as you might find quicker builds. If you are planning 200 training jumps then maybe find the time, but otherwise I wouldn't sweat it...
If you get to a meet and find some weird pain-in-the-arse skydive and you really think it might be better to try the B slot, ask someone from a senior team like VMax, 4Pak or XL (if they are over). UBI also, v nice chaps. Certainly at the Nationals people will be glad to help out junior teams, and there will be a lot of extremely skilled and experienced people milling around.

However for general training purposes I would suggest you are better repeating and repeating standard A Slot launches and builds so you know you will be fast on the grips and you can anticipate where the centres are going to be. Don't be despondent if you sometimes feel like you (personally) are slower to build, it's the thing about tail that if the centres are slightly out, or build towards point, tail gets nailed. Hence anticipation of where the centres will be is key.

Ideally take your 4way team on a training camp and use the same coach - s/he will ensure you get the most from your time and money and have the best chance of improving your average.

Have fun and kick ass (arse)
emma

[Spike 0]

Hi Emma,

Just back from Cross Keys with XL. Weather was shitty, so the guys spent a lot of time with me going through exits and creeping randoms with alternate slots.

Your right on about tail playing chase. Watching the vids from the last couple of training jumps I see myself in place waiting for the grips to arrive and then chasing off because the rest of the formation has moved off the centrepoint.

Congrats on your result at the Southern Regionals, nice to see hard work getting results.

Cya
Colin

[Albatross 0]

Welcome to Tail Bi$^* as I have been so eloquently told. It is the burden of a tail flier to be late and screwed. Deal with it!!! I jsut got back from a weened in Orlando and spent much of my 4-way tunnel time trying to keep you slef on the right side of the line as I felt like I was behind and that I was last.
Here is the advices that I got. 1. deal with it, you will be last often, you will get screwed as the formation build to the point, you will have to chase. 2. stay calm and methodical about grips and moves. 3. fly to the slot, avoid the temptation to grab at grips and be on because it will put you further behind later in the sequence.

As for the exit, leave on time but agressively launch down with the right side or your butt. When you do this avoid the temptation fo rocking up and then down as it will put you high and late on the launch.

Chris

[Emma 0]

Thanks Colin, was a fun meet was it not? See you at the Nationals then I guess? :)
Emma

[Spike 0]

Sure was, I had a great time, met some fab peeps.

Team training most weekends now up to the Nationals, V2? I'll keep 'em peeled for you at Nethers.

I like the way I don't need my ID on the gate, just so long as I keep using product

[Spike 0]

Emma, you lucky lucky person, more tunnel time!

Not jealous at all