stretching to help arch?

[johnny1488 1]

Well here it is. I cant arch. I fly stable as hell but there is very little arch in my body. Cant do center point turns if I dont have a centerpoint. I feel im just wasting my time doing drill dives and im grabbing my way through any 4 way I do. I'm 6'0" and I weigh 185. Not unreasonable at all but im not very flexible in my legs. When i try to arch i usually go knee down from trying to pick my head up and push my hips down. Been trying the old quad stretch but it feels I need something more drastic. Any help would be great.

Johnny

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[wmw999 2,548]

How long have you been stretching? It can take a month or more for results to be real noticeable, particularly if you're not too loose to begin with. It's easy to get frustrated, but eventually it will work.
Stretching is exactly right. One thing you can try when you're in the air is just relaxing your arms and legs quite deliberately. Do it alone first, but if you just relax them, you might find that the wind pushes them up.
Works for me...
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

Have you ever done any Yoga? There is a great Yoga stretch that can really help your arch. Lay on the ground, on your stomach. Put your arms under you, about should width apart and do a pushup, however, keep your hips and legs on the ground, bending upwards at the hips and through the back.

Something that will help you while you are stretching is breathing. Before you start the stretch, take a very deep breath with your mouth (not through the nose), as you stretch exhale through the mouth. Also, make sure you're drinking enough water, that'll help your stretching out (as well as your general health).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Luminous 0]

Stretching is good. I'll propose a couple of other things.
When thinking of arch, squeeze your butt muscles, I tell my students to pretend like your trying to hold a quarter with your butt cheeks.
And remember that the upper body should be relaxed, If your thinking about bringing your head up, your probably arching at the chest. Don't do that.Instead of thinking "legs out", think about pointing your toes up and back behind you. Usually "legs out" results in dropping the knees, but when you think about pointing your toes up and back, it helps maintain the good arch.
"Squeeze the cheeks & point those toes"
Good Luck. BSBD
Larry

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[BikerBabe 0]

You probably need to lengthen (stretch) your hip flexors. Especially if you have a job where you sit most of the day.

A good stretch for that is the following (I'll try to describe it as best as I can):

On the floor, start with your right knee down and your left foot in front of you. keeping most of your weight on your left foot, arch your hips forward untill you feel the stretch in your right hip flexor. (your hip flexor goes from the top of your quads up to your abs, over your pelvis). hold it for 20-30 seconds, then switch.

Look at the attached picture. I'm not fully stretching in this pic, it's more the starting position. Sorry for the attire...it's my day off!

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Samurai136 0]

An AFF/ Tandem instructor explains a good arch as the "schwing" pevis thrust that Wayne and Garth do in _Wayne's World_ movies.

There's another stretch beside the Yoga "up dog" push up Dave described. Stand w/ your feet shoulder width apart, place the palms of your hands on the small of your back (about the belt line), roll your head back and continue leaning back. This should feel very similar to your arch in freefall. The placement of your hands is important. As you lean back farther they support your lower back and help push your pelvis forward. Properly done, from a side view, your body should look like a blade of grass being blown back in the wind.

Remeber to breath as you do this stretch.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[nws01 0]

As my good friend Betsy Barnhouse says, "Be a banana!" If you body looks like a banana you are in a fine position. So, beeee the bananananana!

[johnny1488 1]

thanks everyone I guess it just takes time and patience. Its amazing how stable I can fly with like a 15 degree bend in my hips. I can stand still but damn moving gums up the works. Well time to strech

Johnny

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[weid14 0]

Quote

thanks everyone I guess it just takes time and patience. Its amazing how stable I can fly with like a 15 degree bend in my hips. I can stand still but damn moving gums up the works. Well time to strech

Johnny

you've said a couple of things that I find interesting -- you say you can fall stable but cant turn --- I'm guessing you feel like you're washing all over the sky when you try to turn... here's what I think you may be doing (of course I haven't seen you fly, but I've seen this ALOT when watching people learn in the tunnel) -- instead of droping a knee and keeping the hips down, you're actuall sticking your butt up in the air, cupping air in your mid section, this makes you wobbly and will wash around. The trick isn't necessarily being more flexible (every little bit of that does help though)-- it's using your legs to turn while maintaining your slightly arched postion. think pinched butt muscles (already suggestd) while turning, you may have to exagerate it to learn how, but that may fix your problem (another symptom of the de-arch during the turn is fall rate issues with the others you're jumping with). you may find it helpful to jump with someone who falls a hair faster than you so you have to maintain the arch and when you turn (do 90's first) concentrate on levels also (ask the other person to fall consistently and not make up any levels).... give that a try.

[kallend 2,108]

A friend of mine, who is currently at Perris on the JFTC 140 way attempts, can't arch either due to back surgery when she was younger. She skydives very well, however, wearing (typically) 16 - 22 pound of lead to ensure a good fall rate. Did I mention that she has a RW bronze medal from nationals too.

SO there's hope for you yet.

[johnny1488 1]

I usually float somewhat when i turn. I have a good idea what to work on but really need the flexability to put it into affect. My girlfriend has a great fall rate and can arch like a bandit so I use her as my reference. I guess shes my blonde spaceball.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[Poczynek 0]

Johnny, this may be a little unorthodox, and take some flack from the true body fliers, but for some of us with back injuries and / or old age that don't have the flexibility that we use to, can use the old push turn to execute a center point turn. Be sure to maintain eye contact and push one hand down to execute the turn. You can spin like a top and maintain position. In most cases on a 90, 180, and 360 degree rotation the hands will be back in the neutral / presentation position for the point. Having said this all of the comments on stretching are great - and plan on trying some of the suggestions myself.
David

phat, dumb & happy

[ltdiver 3]

To add the the good suggestions on hip flexor stretching (I, too have the problem...but not as bad as in my student days).

--One that my FJC instructor taught me:
Take 2 kitchen chairs and space them apart.
Lay down with your chest and arms on one chair...and your legs on the other one.
Let your pelvis drop between the two and stretch!
--Yeah, it hurts like hell after a few minutes (work up to that...it won't be easy to start with), but it works great and gravity is your helper.
**Only do this one if you -don't- have back problems that can be exacerbated.

--Another one I saw at a N.C. DZ. It was a 50 gallon drum, layed side-ways and up on 4 welded on legs. Great for laying over (face up) and stretching the arch. Not sure if the Golden Knights use it, but it was at their DZ!

Hope this helps,
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[johnny1488 1]

Thanks I was hoping for something a little out of the ordinary to jump start my arching. Anyone have some sort of medievil torture devices to lenghten my quadreceps and hip flexors?

Johnny

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[drenaline 0]

Just a thought that hasnt been mentioned here, is your gear fitting right? chest strap loosed up enough?

another thing that you can do to replace the arch is to use a natural arch, and make your arms loose air instead of arching put your body something like this: front view: \_o_/ try to touch the container with your elbow (its kinda impossible, its just an explanation to try and explain myself, kinda hard to do it in another language).

Quote

Anyone have some sort of medievil torture devices to lenghten my quadreceps and hip flexors?

as mentioned before, try yoga classes, another thing to do is to ask a sports coach (phys ed teacher) to teach you how to stretch the spine muscles, and any other muscle you wish.

Just remember hard archs can injure your spine, if you are in the need of hard archs to go down you should think the possibilities of using another jumpsuit (nylon) and/or weights.

Regular exercise can help, too. Walk 1 hour for 3 to 5 days a week.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[bobsoutar 0]

Thought skydiving was supposed to be fun!!! Why do you feel the need to arch - to get down to formations or to stay with them?

[johnny1488 1]

You cant do a center point turn if you dont have a center point. Rig and jumpsuit are fine. I keep the chest strap very tight but want to arch from my hips not chest. My problem is all physical but thanks for your info.

Johnny

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[bobsoutar 0]

Reason I asked is that while flying in a formation your body is generally flat (neutral position) and the arch is created by your legs being bent at 90 degrees at the knee. You can easily practice this by lying face down on the floor, spread knees wide with toes pointing at the ceiling and back up so that your knees and toes are pressed against a wall - hands should be pulled back so that the thumbs are not forward of the chin.
Apart from some positions in a formation launch (rear diver for instance) an arch or de-arch is really only used to make small adjustments to fall rate to match the others in the formation. In order to keep a centre point you have to bend everything from(and including) your shoulders to your knees (not just hips or chest).

[weid14 0]

Quote

Reason I asked is that while flying in a formation your body is generally flat (neutral position) and the arch is created by your legs being bent at 90 degrees at the knee. You can easily practice this by lying face down on the floor, spread knees wide with toes pointing at the ceiling and back up so that your knees and toes are pressed against a wall - hands should be pulled back so that the thumbs are not forward of the chin.
Apart from some positions in a formation launch (rear diver for instance) an arch or de-arch is really only used to make small adjustments to fall rate to match the others in the formation. In order to keep a centre point you have to bend everything from(and including) your shoulders to your knees (not just hips or chest).

not if you are turning points fast and furious, you fly flat and you will wobble around the sky like a lame duck. you need to have a slight arch in the hips maintained at all times, even during 360's and 540's. the position you describe is not correct, falling straight down -- mantis -- hands out in front of your face like someone has thrown a ball at your nose. see the mantis thread there are some good pictures. how can you possibly pick up grips in the position you describe?

[bobsoutar 0]

Sorry, bad wording. Yes a slight arch is desirable (although a slight de-arch can work). Didn't mean hands in front of the face, just somewhere behind a line level with the chin to prevent backsliding.