AggieDave 6 #1 January 20, 2003 I have a PISA Heatwave and have about 150 jumps on it, bought it brand new. The lower control lines are starting to fuzz fairly significantly, which seems very very odd for as few jumps as this canopy has. Here's a theory that a couple people came up with and I wanted to run this by the other riggers here to see what they said: The lines aren't "coated" like PD lines are, and the fuzzing is due to the lack of that coating along with the lower control line rubbing the guide ring on the risers. What are yalls opinion of that? My rigger and I are talking about replacing the lower control lines with the same kind of line that PD uses to see if they wear as fast.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #2 January 20, 2003 well i had over 600 jumps on a heatwave 120, and i didn't ever replace anything on it. do you have velcro riser?? have you checked you guide ring to make sure it is smooth?? i haven't heard of anything like the lines being different on PD canopies, but i could be wrong. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 January 20, 2003 The only velcro on my rig holds my cutaway/reserve handles and is on the Freebag & reserve toggles. The guide rings are fine, nothing there, no nicks, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 January 20, 2003 have you actually emailed PISA? Ned@pisa.co.za____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 January 20, 2003 Strangely enough, not yet, I'm dropping them a line right now.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #6 January 20, 2003 If it's not coated, then I believe you are on the right track. Get the exact line length spec, and have them replaced as you already mentioned. Premature wear can be heavily affected by the running through the guide ring like in the photo you sent for the Triple riser post. (This is not a suggestion to use triples it's a good photo to show the friction point). There probably is no bur on the ring as you stated already, but just for the sake of understanding, if it can be felt with your finger, then the burr is HUGE. Opening shock and flaring out of the corner (cuz we get in the corner sometimes) creates the most force on the line. If the line breaks on opening, no big deal. If the line breaks on landing? That's another story. Good luck TimMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #7 January 20, 2003 My Hornet has about 100 jumps and is doing this, too. Got the "don't worry about it yet" from my rigger this past weekend. Keep us posted if you learn anything from PISA or by experimentation. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #8 January 20, 2003 My hornet 135 has about 150 jumps on it and the rigger said it was velcrow that was doing that. Let me know what pisa tells ya. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 January 21, 2003 Check out the grommets also. In addition my impression has been that brass gromments wear the lines more than stainless. Don't know which you have. 150 jumps my not be a lot but I've probably seen some canopies needing new lowers my then, but usually with velcro toggles.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 January 21, 2003 The type of grommets shouldn't affect Dave's lower steering lines, as they never come in contact with the lower steering lines (at least not in any meaningful way). He pulls the slider down before releasing the brakes. Dave, correct me if I am wrong. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 January 21, 2003 Derek, You're right, the slider comes down behind my head before I release the brakes. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #12 January 21, 2003 Dave, very cool photo showing riser deflection. This much rear riser pull must affect swoop kinda like rear risering (except you're deep in brakes ). Is that a Heatwave you fly? Most Stilettos (Heatwave copy ha ha ) would bowtie with brakes that deep. BTW I wonder if most folks think SS slider grommets are worth paying an extra $40 for (as some mfgs. charge). Do brass grommets really cause that much more brakeline wear? This is especially an issue on Vectran and HMA lines. These lines don't show much visible wear before they become dangerously fragile and they are found only on canopies that are likely to be flown and landed with highly stressed brakelines.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 January 21, 2003 That pic was taken towards the end of my swoop, so yeah, I'm starting to get towards the end of the brakes. I have my brakes set up to finish the flare just before arms length, that way there is no tail deflection when I front riser. Yeah, that's a Heatwave (love the canopy) and yup, a Stiletto would crap its self at that point. I have brass grommets on the slider and the only thing that I've noticed with my lines is that they're getting *slightly* discolored around the SLinks, but beyond that, no noticable wear (except the lower control lines, obviously. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #14 January 21, 2003 You guys are funny with the stiletto wouldn't take it at this point stuff!...LOL!!! Keep it coming! I like it. TimMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
underdog 0 #15 January 21, 2003 QuoteYou guys are funny with the stiletto wouldn't take it at this point stuff!...LOL!!! Keep it coming! I like it. no kidding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 January 21, 2003 Update. Here's what PISA said: Quote Well of course your HEATWAVE is pretty much loaded so it is no wonder you're getting fuzzy wuzzy wear on the control lines. The steering line is coated so they don't wear any less or faster than PD lines. The fact is when your're performing long swoops on a heavily loaded canopy , the friction alone on the steering line guide rings is increased significantly especially when you make constant corrections during your swoop. This is why the lower control steering lines are so really easy to replace ! We really don't like Vectran al all because it has limited flexibility wear properties. Use a standard 1000 lb microline or even dacron. All of these "microline" type Aramids are basically a kind of plastic. This means with the heat of the friction , the line can either stretch or shrink in a non- uniform manner. I'm sure if you look at the inside of the steering line guide rings , you'll find them pretty shiny and not dull. Ned went on to talk about canopy trim in a non-related fasion, but he sent me the trim specs, so that's really really handy. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 January 21, 2003 Please share those Hornet trim specs with the rest of us. Masybe we need to establish a separate page where riggers can share trim charts, etc.? Sangiro? I have a few dozen trim charts I will cheerfully share. Another idea would be a separate page where riggers can share common wear problems, common repairs. Comments? The PIA Rigger's moderated forum sort of does this, but it is under-subscribed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #18 January 22, 2003 I'd like to see a page/forum/site/ ? geared to sharing technical information. Your right, the PIA rigger forum is undersubscribed, as well as not timely do to the review by the moderator of each message. I'll discuss this problem at the PIA business meeting in the next couple days. If you have specific comments or ideas and aren't going to be here for the business meeting send me a private message and I'll pass them on. I'll talk to George and Carol about what we can do on PIA.com. See private message.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
