Sabre 2 twitchy with brakes stowed

[SethInMI 174]

I am on my 3rd Sabre 2, a 135 loaded now at almost 1.5. I have about 60 jumps on it, and I notice that it does something that my other Sabre 2's didn't do. If I start a rear riser turn with the brakes stowed, or the canopy opens in a turn, it will continue to turn until I correct it with the other riser. It only happens with a sustained turn like 90 degrees or so, not with small or gentle inputs.

I am not a fan of this behavior, and would like to stop it if I could. I want to know:
1. Is this normal for Sabre 2s at this wingloading?
2. Is this normal for all semi-elliptical or elliptical wings at this or higher wingloading?
3. I noticed that I do have some line shrinkage, there is now about 3" between the inside and outside A lines when I have it over my shoulder. Could this contribute to this twitchiness?

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[DocPop 1]

SethInMI

I am on my 3rd Sabre 2, a 135 loaded now at almost 1.5. I have about 60 jumps on it, and I notice that it does something that my other Sabre 2's didn't do. If I start a rear riser turn with the brakes stowed, or the canopy opens in a turn, it will continue to turn until I correct it with the other riser. It only happens with a sustained turn like 90 degrees or so, not with small or gentle inputs.

I am not a fan of this behavior, and would like to stop it if I could. I want to know:
1. Is this normal for Sabre 2s at this wingloading?
2. Is this normal for all semi-elliptical or elliptical wings at this or higher wingloading?
3. I noticed that I do have some line shrinkage, there is now about 3" between the inside and outside A lines when I have it over my shoulder. Could this contribute to this twitchiness?

My initial thoughts:

- Some oversteer is natural with elliptical canopies; less so with semi-ellipticals (I know...when does one become the other..?)
- Are you leaning to the inside of the turn? Harness input becomes more noticeable as WL rises. You could probably stop the turn with some opposite harness input. I do that during roll-out from a turn to stay on heading.
- It sounds like your lines may need changing. Is this oversteer more noticeable in one direction that the other? Have you checked the length of the brake lines against each other (particularly the uppers)?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Zlew 0]

I can't speak to Sabre 2's, but I can speak to Stiletto/Katana/Velos ranging from 1.4 or so to 1.9 to 1.

In my experience, a hard turn on opening will require some counter turn to stop it in a reasonable amount of time. I've never just let it go to see how long it will turn...but on all of those wings if I get a wild opening I usually stop it with harness (aggressive harness), or opposite rear riser. It usually just needs a quick input to stop, but without input it feels like it would keep turning for a while in a manner similar to how the same wings will over-steer on an intentional and aggressive turn. Note- I only give those counter inputs after the slider has come down (not during the snivel).

Is it a new lineset? Being out of trim could significantly change the flight characteristics and/or where the true brake setting is.

[Pablo.Moreno 0]

I have flew Sigma 340, Saber2 (1.3/1.5), crossfire2 (1.6), Pilot(2/1 I know), velo(2.1) JVX(2.5).

In all fo them wih the brakes stow and turning I needed to stop the turn by rear in he more docile wings and only harness in the high loaded wings, even with the tandem canopys when I have a turn in opening I have to stop by pulling on the rears.

when the canopy is high loaded, I would use the harness and if that doesnt stop then go to rears, but wih a lightly loaded canopy it is less aggressive and a touch on rears normally does the trick.

You can test if you can stop it by harness or need more, just hold your brakes to where they are set (nomally and then shift back and forward and see how the canopy flys.

[SethInMI 174]

Thanks guys.

Sounds like it just works that way, which is good, cause I don't have to try and fix it.

I was considering getting some lines replaced this winter, either a complete lineset or maybe just the LSTs. I will probably just wait another season now.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I load my Sabre2 97 at 1.86 and yes, it's gonna dive off to one side if I don't stay square in the harness at pull time. No biggie. Do be vigilant with your line trim if you are still jumping Spectra lines though. I relined mine with 500 HMA two years ago.

Chuck

[SethInMI 174]

SkymonkeyONE

I relined mine with 500 HMA two years ago.

Chuck

Did PD do that for you? If not, who came up with the line lengths? (I assume you are now non-cascaded).

Thanks,

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[DocPop 1]

SethInMI

(I assume you are now non-cascaded).

Can I ask why you assume that?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[SethInMI 174]

DocPop

***(I assume you are now non-cascaded).

Can I ask why you assume that?

Out of ignorance. I have only seen a few HMA lined canopies and they were non-cascaded, but I guess that is because they were all from Precision, and that is what Precision does.

I see now that PD does cascade their HMA canopies.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[DocPop 1]

SethInMI

******(I assume you are now non-cascaded).

Can I ask why you assume that?

Out of ignorance. I have only seen a few HMA lined canopies and they were non-cascaded, but I guess that is because they were all from Precision, and that is what Precision does.

I see now that PD does cascade their HMA canopies.

Seth

Cool. That makes sense.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Pablo.Moreno 0]

DocPop

*********(I assume you are now non-cascaded).

Can I ask why you assume that?

Out of ignorance. I have only seen a few HMA lined canopies and they were non-cascaded, but I guess that is because they were all from Precision, and that is what Precision does.

I see now that PD does cascade their HMA canopies.

Seth

Cool. That makes sense.

Icarus does csacade too, just relined a JVX with the HMA 300