timmyfitz 0 #26 November 26, 2009 QuoteQuotewhy's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies ...Why wouldn't you want to jump this... Most of the time, I'd say 85-90% of it - this is pure sheep mentality. This is true for anything - skis, skateboards, bikes, whatever. "The top guys use 'x-product', so will i - it will make me better!". No, it wont. That sums it up very nicely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #27 November 26, 2009 Quote I don't understand why anyone would dislike a company simply by the size of their market share. I don't understand why anybody would try to understand Sangi scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #28 November 26, 2009 QuoteCan you please give me direct examples of how PD customer service is good and how Icarus service is bad? I personally cannot. In over 5000+ jumps made on over a dozen PD canopies, I have never had one problem with any canopy, material or construction, so I've never needed to experience their customer service. I've always been pleased with my interactions when getting relines, but I would think that falls under the heading of just doing good business, and not the subject of praise. You, however, have access to the 'search' feature of DZ.com where you can see many first-hand examples of PD exceeding customers expectations, and Icarus failing to provide service of any kind. To get back to your original question, why so many Velos? See my comment above, about over a dozen PD canopies, and never one single problem of any kind? With that type of track record, why would I consider buying from anyone else? I live in a place where we only jump 7 or 8 months out of the year, and as such if I have to send a canopy in for repairs or becasue of a problem, I miss out on a part of what I consider to be a short season. My solution is to stick with the company that has a track record of producing products I can count on. I suspect that a JVX might be a faster canopy. I'm not sure how much faster, but faster. Either way, I'm willing to sacrifice the speed advantage of the JVX to get the reliability of the Velo. I know that some JVXs had a problem with the early version of the sail fabric they used. I don't know what it took to get that fixed, or what Icarus did for those customers effected, but it took more time, effort, and down time than what I put into my Velo, which was nothing. Jump after jump, year after year, PD canopies just work. It's hard to argue with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djmarvin 2 #29 November 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteI bet I can make the biggest splash in Spaceland's pond! Don't you already hold that record :) DJ Marvin AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E http://www.theratingscenter.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #30 November 27, 2009 Quote Don't you already hold that record :) Nope, Yoshi does! As for Icarus service vs PD service. A great example would be the demo canopies. Back when I was looking for my 2nd to own canopy I was looking for something in the high performance 9-cell open nose class. The Katana wasn't out yet, but the Vengence was still around. I called up PD, talked to their staff. They recommended canopies and shipped demos that same day so I could jump them that weekend. For Icarus, I couldn't get a response via the phone or e-mail. I ended up coming to DZ.com and complaining about it, looking for a contact when one of their reps heard about it. He had to personally jumped the chain of command in his company and personally call the head US rep and then he got me a XF2 demo. I had to do a lot of leg work to get a XF2 demo. After that Icarus rep died I found that people had serious trouble getting Icarus demos again. You pretty much had to personally know someone to give you the hook up. PD still ships demos every single day to anyone who asks (and covers the shipping and a small service fee). Want to demo a Sabre2, then a Spectre, then a Pulse, then a Storm and then one of their reserves? No problem, no hassle, just call and BAM, you've got it. That's a personal example of the difference in customer service.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #31 November 27, 2009 Quote Can you please give me direct examples of how PD customer service is good and how Icarus service is bad? Well I had to wait 7 months for a safire lineset and 3 weeks for a spectre lineset ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #32 November 27, 2009 Quote Well I had to wait 7 months for a safire lineset and 3 weeks for a spectre lineset I waited 10 days for a lineset after I ordered one for my XF2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #33 November 27, 2009 Quote Quote Well I had to wait 7 months for a safire lineset and 3 weeks for a spectre lineset I waited 10 days for a lineset after I ordered one for my XF2. I sent my JVX for reline to the service centre at SD Chicago on Monday and had it back on Friday and I live in Canada. Communication (i.e. pick up the phone) is key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPAWNmaster 0 #34 November 27, 2009 I asked Icarus for a XF2 demo for some canopy coaching while traveling, and they had it at the Dropzone I was visiting that same week. Strangely though, when I called 2/3 weeks later to let them know I had every intention of returning it soon, and had just gotten caught up (read: lazy) with life, the rep didn't even seem to know the demo was out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #35 November 28, 2009 I apologize for how long this post got. I've never experienced Icarus' customer service so I can't comment. PD however, I have. I bought a used Velo 96 last year. Once open and flying it was everything I wanted. I say that because I jumped it about 200 times between July and April and chopped it 4 times. On the last reserve landing I had a great front riser 270 and crosswind on my PD113R. I realized I was spending too much time under my reserve and found a used Velo 90. I sent the 96 back to PD to see if they could fix it. About 3 weeks later I got a call explaining that they had inspected the canopy and found the fabric to be old but solid and the line trim (Vectran) to be a little out but not terrible. They sent it to a test jumper in Deland and he reported back almost exactly the behavior I had written in the work order. I was asked a few questions about the history of the canopy (which I couldn't answer) and was thanked for giving them a chance to check it out and possibly fix it and not just selling it to an unsuspecting buyer. They also asked if I needed a loaner while they worked on it, which I didn't but you have to admit it was a nice gesture. End result was they relined the canopy and even added a feature from the comp Velo to see what effect it would have. It is now a solid and reliable canopy now living in my backup rig. If you want to know what I think is the most remarkable part of the whole experience it is this. The Velo in question was manufactured in March of 1999 and PD had no obligation whatsoever in my opinion regarding it. I have always heard how great their reserves are and how thorough their R&D program is but I never dreamed there customer support would be this impressive. I am not, nor will I likely ever be a sponsored PD pilot. There is a strong chance I may never even purchase a new PD product but you can bet when my friends or AFF students ask about PD I only have positive things to say about them. Thanks PD."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #36 November 28, 2009 I am assuming these are posted as a joke? But those swoops sucked. Can you say stab out of the corner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #37 November 28, 2009 Quote I am assuming these are posted as a joke? A joke ! No way man ! Hes cool as hell ! (apparently sarcasm over the internet is a skill that isnt easy to master) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #38 November 28, 2009 QuoteI am assuming these are posted as a joke? But those swoops sucked. Can you say stab out of the corner Oh yeah, that guy. When I first read through this thread, I didn't even click on those links because it said a JVX at +4.0, and I figured it was Luigi on his 30-whatever he jumps. After your comment, I did have a look. He used to post on here as 'Steele', or something like that, and got hell for jumping that VX-55 at 4.0+. Everyone said it was stupid, and just beyond the point of anything that made sense, but he argued that it was fine and he liked the performance. As you can easily see in the second link, the last jump he put on the 55, that he was nowhere near maxing the canopy out, and looked like he just barely survived the swoop. Of course we see in the first link that he has now downsized, and continues to look like he's barely surviving the swoop. I'll give him points for making it this long on those tiny canopies, but it still doesn't make any sense. You can't jump them in traffic, you can't get out more than 1/4 mile from the DZ, and you can't really fly with anyone except a light weight, expert wingsuit pilot. Stupid? Yes. A desperate cry for attention? Probably. Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #39 November 28, 2009 Quote Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. I would assume he doesnt jump those on a regular basis ? But this is only an assumption.. The JVX 50 video is just hilarious. With the comments of the videographer I just cant stop laughing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #40 November 29, 2009 QuoteQuote Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. I would assume he doesnt jump those on a regular basis ? But this is only an assumption.. The JVX 50 video is just hilarious. With the comments of the videographer I just cant stop laughing... You would be wrong. He jumped both all the time. He has since up sized a little 70 something?Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #41 November 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. I would assume he doesnt jump those on a regular basis ? But this is only an assumption.. reply] You would be wrong. He jumped both all the time. He has since up sized a little 70 something? Like I said it was only assumption. Im glad you correct this. Well, everyone can jump what they want. I wish them all good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #42 November 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. I would assume he doesnt jump those on a regular basis ? But this is only an assumption.. reply] You would be wrong. He jumped both all the time. He has since up sized a little 70 something? Like I said it was only assumption. Im glad you correct this. Well, everyone can jump what they want. I wish them all good. Sorry I did not mean to come off that wayNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #43 November 30, 2009 QuoteQuote I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft. Tell me a reason why should I fly ant sub 70 sq ft canopy. I got enough wing load even with a 105 anyway. You shouldn't. I'm saying that flying canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft constitutes more of a stunt than anything. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 140 #44 December 1, 2009 Quote So I was always wondering, why's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies? 'cause you can start jumping them at under 400 jumps scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #45 December 2, 2009 I disagree............I think once you exceed a certain wing loading vs canopy size is what you really mean? I've seen some petite folks jump sub 70 square foot canopies, just fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #46 December 2, 2009 QuoteI disagree............I think once you exceed a certain wing loading vs canopy size is what you really mean? I've seen some petite folks jump sub 70 square foot canopies, just fine. Absolute canopy size is an issue, just like wing-loading is. People can argue back and forth about what the "ideal" wing loading is for particular canopy designs or for particular events, but you can't argue that there are diminishing returns for getting to that wing loading by simply jumping a smaller canopy. JayMo can wear 70 pounds of lead or whatever and swoop 678 ft on a 103, but he's not going to pull off the same feat with no lead and a 79. Down below the 68-71 sq ft class of canopies even small guys (and gals) with lead on will start hitting a wall, even if they're not yet at an "ideal" wing loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hparrish 0 #47 December 2, 2009 I don't buy that argument. I've seen too many good canopy pilots, contradicting what you are saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ozzy13 0 #48 December 2, 2009 Quote Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4 Take no substitute ! I have seen better swoops on a saber 150 Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #49 December 3, 2009 Quote Quote Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4 Take no substitute ! I have seen better swoops on a saber 150 but he lived! Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #50 December 3, 2009 Quote I don't buy that argument. I've seen too many good canopy pilots, contradicting what you are saying. Agreed. For example, Nick Batsch is using a 63 here at the World Cup and doing just fine Smaller wings are much much harder to fly well, though. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
JohnDeere 0 #42 November 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Success in jumping tiny canopies for several years? Amazingly, also a yes. I would assume he doesnt jump those on a regular basis ? But this is only an assumption.. reply] You would be wrong. He jumped both all the time. He has since up sized a little 70 something? Like I said it was only assumption. Im glad you correct this. Well, everyone can jump what they want. I wish them all good. Sorry I did not mean to come off that wayNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #43 November 30, 2009 QuoteQuote I think most people will pass over canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft. Tell me a reason why should I fly ant sub 70 sq ft canopy. I got enough wing load even with a 105 anyway. You shouldn't. I'm saying that flying canopies smaller than about 70 sq ft constitutes more of a stunt than anything. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #44 December 1, 2009 Quote So I was always wondering, why's Velocity is the most popular and most jumped out of all the HP Xbraced canopies? 'cause you can start jumping them at under 400 jumps scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #45 December 2, 2009 I disagree............I think once you exceed a certain wing loading vs canopy size is what you really mean? I've seen some petite folks jump sub 70 square foot canopies, just fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #46 December 2, 2009 QuoteI disagree............I think once you exceed a certain wing loading vs canopy size is what you really mean? I've seen some petite folks jump sub 70 square foot canopies, just fine. Absolute canopy size is an issue, just like wing-loading is. People can argue back and forth about what the "ideal" wing loading is for particular canopy designs or for particular events, but you can't argue that there are diminishing returns for getting to that wing loading by simply jumping a smaller canopy. JayMo can wear 70 pounds of lead or whatever and swoop 678 ft on a 103, but he's not going to pull off the same feat with no lead and a 79. Down below the 68-71 sq ft class of canopies even small guys (and gals) with lead on will start hitting a wall, even if they're not yet at an "ideal" wing loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hparrish 0 #47 December 2, 2009 I don't buy that argument. I've seen too many good canopy pilots, contradicting what you are saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #48 December 2, 2009 Quote Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4 Take no substitute ! I have seen better swoops on a saber 150 Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #49 December 3, 2009 Quote Quote Yo but seriously, these vids prove beyond doubt that JVX loaded >4.0 is the bomb ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctvTcMyQsRc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VOLS4tiQ4 Take no substitute ! I have seen better swoops on a saber 150 but he lived! Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #50 December 3, 2009 Quote I don't buy that argument. I've seen too many good canopy pilots, contradicting what you are saying. Agreed. For example, Nick Batsch is using a 63 here at the World Cup and doing just fine Smaller wings are much much harder to fly well, though. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
