Pull This !!

[DYEVOUT 0]

I've seen the term "pullout" used a lot throughout these forums. At the DZs I've been to, I've seen ripcord rigs (student), BOC throwouts, and legstrap throwouts.

Could someone please 'splain to me what a pullout deployment system is? Does it utilize a spring-loaded pilot chute like a ripcord system?

Thanks for helping the rooky.

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[Sonic 0]

It uses a pc similar to a normal throwawy pc, only it's packing inside the container with the bagged canopy. the pin is straight unlike the curved ones on a throwaway rig. This is connected via a small lanyard to a handle / pad. when you pull the handle / pad, you manually pull the pin, opening the container and releasing the pc.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[riggerrob 643]

Pull-out is the second most popular form of hand-deployed pilotchute. It represents about 5% of the market. Popularity varies widely, but is regionalized, ergo some DZs have dozens of pull-outs, while many have none.
All modern pull-outs have the handle located on the lower right hand corner of the main container. Pull-out works similar to ripcord, in that when the jumper pulls his pull-out handle, pud, dildo, call-it-what-you-will, he first pulls the pin that holds the main container closed. Further arm extension drags the soft pilotchute out of the container and into the airstream. Since the handle is connected to the bottom of the pilotchute, it iflates quickly, dragging the handle out of the jumper's hand.

There is a 25 year old debate about whether pull-out is safer than throw-out (i. BOC). As a rigger, I prefer pull-out because it suffers a higher incidence of hard pulls and floating dildos and that means more repacks for me. I have packed hundreds of pull-outs but have never owned one.

[DYEVOUT 0]

What keeps the pud in place w/o pilot chute tension as a BOC has? Don't say Velcro !!

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

What keeps the pud in place w/o pilot chute tension as a BOC has? Don't say Velcro !!

Sorry, Velcro. Some use elastic keepers. A jumper on the formation loads at the SDAZ boogie had a reserve ride because he had a floating "pud". The only reserve ride out of 6, 27-ways.

Hook

[councilman24 37]

There have been dozens of designs for keeping the handle in place. Tuck tab stiffeners, combinations of velcro, etc etc. One common source of reserve rides used to be floating handles (routinely know as dildos or more politely puds). Think floating ripcord only in the middle of your back. An early rig had the handle on a somewhat longer lanyard and it was in view on your side. I saw this system knot around the PC twice in a couple of months. (Old Rapid Transit)

NO, I won't start the debate over, but see Rob's comments.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DYEVOUT 0]

This system sounds dangerous. What would the advantage be - less "horseshoe-ability"? Was this just a step in the evolution of our equipment, or is this system offered on new rigs today?

S'cuse me for being such a nosey shit.

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[councilman24 37]

The implied advantage is that you open the container, not the PC. Errrrrr I can't resist. I can't pull a pin with 150 lbs of force, like a PC. Can you?

I'll be fare. This system has worked well for many skydivers. But I (and many others) believe you have to be much more careful about packing and maintenance with a pullout versus a throw out. Each has real and perceived advantages and disadvantages. Someone else good at searching threads find him one to read.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[murrays 0]

Like Rob said, this is a 25 year old debate. I'm a pull-out user but I would consider jumping a BOC throwout as they eliminate most of the bridle misrouting problems that have killed a lot of skydivers over the years. That being said, a friend of mine with 9000+ jumps packed himself a pc in tow with a BOC throw-out last summer so you still have to be careful with your bridle routing.

I've had a pullout for 2000 jumps/21 years now. 3-4 floating handles, no reserve rides as I find them easy to find...just sweep your hand from the lower right corner towards the pin until you grab the handle or its bridle and then deploy normally. If you don't get it right away, pull your reserve. It will deploy into clean air.

I've seen 1 person have a reserve ride as a result of a floating handle. I've seen quite a few reserve rides as a result of hard pulls on throw-outs where the pc bunched up in the pouch and several more from pilot-chutes in tow....which is a malfunction that I've never wanted to have.

The other consideration that continue influenced my choice is that a dislodged handle on a throw-out results in a deployment which can be very dangerous on large rw loads or to a cameraman on a small rw load.

Packing a pullout pc for my old Racer involves folding it in half and stuffing it into the bottom of my container...nothing could be simpler. The handle I use has a plastic stiffener in it and the ends fit in two pockets on the bottom of the container. Zero maintenance for 1000 jumps now. I don't think I'd jump one that relied on velcro to stay in place. If some rigs still use velcro for their pullouts, I'd get a BOC throwout on that rig instead.

I don't recommend them for low-time jumpers but I think that once you have a 100 or so jumps they are fine provided you adequately prepare yourself and fully understand their operation and packing.

Many of my original concerns regarding throw-outs have been addressed in newer rigs ... BOC with a good pouch reduces bridle misrouting potential, the potential for a pc in tow and the potential for unintentional deployments.

A BOC throw-out is definitely recommended if you jump a wingsuit.

Whatever you choose, be sure you understand it and have a plan for whatever failure modes you may encounter.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[skyboyblue 0]

Murray(or quade?), what's your thoughts on cameramen using pullouts? how are the infinities rated for handle fit(velcro/stiffners)?

sbb

[drenaline 0]

Can a pull out PC be kill line?

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[relyon 0]

Quote

Can a pull out PC be kill line?

Yes.

Bob

[DZBone 0]

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3-4 floating handles, no reserve rides as I find them easy to find

I'll second that. Not that it happens all the time, but when it does, it's not a huge deal. I'm not sure if it's equipment differences, lack of practicing it as part of emergency procedures, or just luck of the draw, but I'm not sure why there would be a great number of reserve rides for floating puds. The bridle is still where you left it at the bottom of the container!

This post basically closes the discussion, however.

I will probably continue to jump pull-outs because they are what I have always used, I am comfortable with them, and therefore they are safer for me right now. Either system is safe if used and maintained properly.

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If you hadn't read this, would it have made a sound?

[DYEVOUT 0]

I really appreciate the responses to my post. Both sides have valid points, but when Mr. Booth takes the time to talk, I listen. My first rig shall have 3-rings (of course) and a BOC throwout.

Thanks Bill.

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[murrays 0]

Thank-you for linking to that post by Bill Booth. The part about the pull-out body position and ellipticals is another reason for me to consider a BOC throwout on my next rig. I just entered the ZP age and my Stiletto 135 has been giving me funky openings which I am endeavouring to find the cause of. This is a possible contributing factor that I had not heard of before.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[diablopilot 2]

Before you jump to a conclusion, check out what system many of the top swoop competitors are using. I disagree that you must change your body position, and with a pull out I can toss that PC into clean air every bit as easily as a throw out. I've got at least 1000 jumps loading between 1.8 and 2.3 on zp elipticals, and the only line twists I've ever had were from unstowed toggles (twice).

In my opinion the scariest malfunction senario is the horseshoe, and also IN MY OPINION the pullout is the better system to avoid it. This does not remove the need or responsibility to take other preventitive measures (i.e. proper closing loop length, new closing loops, proper canopy/container fit, ect.)

Botom line is everyone needs to be a thinking skydiver, and with all possible respect to Mr. Bill Booth or anyone else with an opinion, I do not abide by anyone doing making a decision just because someone else has made it before you. Evaluate ALL opinions and make your own decision.

Again, there is nothing wrong with either system, simply evaluate which is better for yourself.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.