Spectre landing flare help based on video

[repcool 2]

In some ways I hate to open myself up to ridicule here, but I figure the valuable input I will get will outweigh the beatings....

I am still trying to nail down my flare on a Spectre 210. I took a canopy class at the end of last year, I will likely do another one again in the next month or so but I would like to make some progress before I turn up to the guys class AGAIN!

I did 5 no wind landings this weekend and 2 of them turned into a PLF of sorts. It "feels" like I am carrying speed which in turn generates lift on the flare which then dumps me straight down. I can't analyze this in my mind to figure out if my flare is too aggressive, or two high, or not finished right, or a panic leg reach for the ground...


This video has my landings from last year when filmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1bFXlwfs9Q

The 3rd landing was close to the best from my perspective. Again, I can't tell from watching if the aggressive change of angle on the canopy is too much or even too little. I play with it at altitude to feel the swing with my eyes closed, but once the ground is in the picture something isn't adding up.

Thanks for any input. Simon

[dragon2 2]

What did the canopy coach say? From my perspective, and I'm no canopy coach, you're flaring in one go, like a student canopy. This isn't a student canopy Flare (start a bit higher than you are doing now) only until the canopy planes out, hold for a bit to let the canopy fly horizontal and lose some ground speed, then finish the flare when you start to descend, finish it smoothly. You have to feel the canopy flying and braking and adjust accordingly, now you're just going "help I wanna stop NOW" which I must admit is very familiar to me

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[AggieDave 6]

First of all, what did the canopy coach say?

You were starting your flare a bit late on a few of the landings. Take a deep breath, think about flare one, twoooooooo, FINISH.

It looks like you're waiting to flare then stabbing out the flare stroke. Hence the dramatic pop-up then crumple to the ground.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[millertime24 8]

FWIW, I also fly a spectre 210 (loaded 1-1) and when I land mine I simply wait until I'm about 6' off the ground (feet off the ground not head) then start my flare. I generally bring the toggles down pretty quickly UNTIL the canopy flies straight and not down ("planes out" as previously mentioned). Once the canopy starts to sink again I finish bringing the toggles the rest of the way down to full arm extention (finishing the flare) and she will set you down just as pretty as you please. Whats really odd is that I used to fly a spectre 230 before I got my 210 and for the life of me I used to biff about 50% of my landings. Ever since I got my 210 I have yet to fuck one up. Weired huh?

Muff #5048

[piahenzi 0]

I had a spectre 170 right after student status - coming off the Manta (??) 190. I loaded this 170 at 0.9 or so and could not land that thing for my life. I smacked /plf'd about 50 or so landings, switched over to Sabre 150/ learned the 2 stage flare and the rest is history. I know there are fans of the Spectre out there but I am not one of them.

[bwilling 0]

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Again, I can't tell from watching if the aggressive change of angle on the canopy is too much or even too little.

While I'm certainly no expert, I think the aggressive change of angle is just happening too quickly. I agree with AggieDave and the others that think you're flaring too quickly. While you can make that technique work, it puts tremendous pressure on the timing of when you start the flare, because it's an all or nothing approach when you wait that late then hit it really hard.

I jump a Spectre, a big one, at a 1.1 wing loading. While it's certainly no swoop monster, it's a modern ZP canopy, with a distinct plane out phase to the landing. I have better luck landing mine by starting my flare earlier to plane the canopy out some, then pausing long enough to evaluate my position, based on that plane out, and adjusting. I don't like to think of it as a 'two stage' flare, more as a dynamic event. You'll certainly need to follow through still, and 'finish' the flare, but that's true with all canopies, not just the Spectre.

It's not nearly as much fun to land in no wind as the Sabre 2 I demoed, but I can set it down consistently soft with little run out using that technique.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[skybytch 273]

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I smacked /plf'd about 50 or so landings, switched over to Sabre 150/ learned the 2 stage flare and the rest is history. I know there are fans of the Spectre out there but I am not one of them.

Try jumping one now that you've learned how to flare.

[repcool 2]

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. I am reading a common theme, "earlier, slower and smoother". It isn't a massive surprise as the whole flare experience is a bit of a black out event that I need to become more conscious of.

I have a weekend of practice planned and will report back!

[piahenzi 0]

No thanks - just moved on to a Katana 97. I am over not being able to land the Spectre

[dharma1976 0]

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No thanks - just moved on to a Katana 97. I am over not being able to land the Spectre

I had a dream the other day that I totally called up kim at PD to ask her for a 120 spectre...I even told her about it she giggled.

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[piahenzi 0]

Awesome!!!
I'd probably wake up in a cold sweat if I ever had to waste good canopy time under a big ass Spectre again, even in a dream....

[skybytch 273]

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I'd probably wake up in a cold sweat if I ever had to waste good canopy time under a big ass Spectre again, even in a dream....

My s/o, who has several thousand jumps on Velocitys at 2.0+, recently added a Spectre 135 to his quiver of canopies. He likes it enough to jump it even when he's not jumping with me.

Maybe someday I'll be able to swoop mine like he does his...

[d123 4]

Same problem here,

I've changed my risers this year. Before I had no slack in the brakes lines now they slack. Before it was levelling off @ ears level now @ nipple level. Now is going faster. Before I've land it from half brakes and still had a good flare now I'm afraid to do something new with it.

My landing Saturday looked exactly like yours .... I'm planning to ask an experienced pilot to fly it and to give me tips via the radio on my next jump. I'll make sure we have the same WL.
I'm looking for ways to address this problem of mine ... suggestions are highly appreciated!

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[piahenzi 0]

...let's read carefully before reply posting..... the operative words in my post are "BIG ASS"... I have indeed seen some impressive swoopage under higher loaded Spectres.. that cannot be denied ...

[skybytch 273]

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let's read carefully before reply posting..... the operative words in my post are "BIG ASS"... I have indeed seen some impressive swoopage under higher loaded Spectres.. that cannot be denied

Oh I did read carefully. A 135 is a BIG ASS parachute compared to an 84.

[Martini 0]

If you try to land a 7-cell canopy like the Spectre as if it were a 9-cell the results will often look like your vid. Try starting the flare slightly earlier, be smooth, seek help from canopy pilots with current 7-cell experience. I have to really concentrate when landing a 7-cell.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[repcool 2]

Thanks to all you folks for some good pointers, a few folks at the drop zone gave some input and I put it to use. On Saturday I was playing around with my field of view, flare start and flare speed. By Sunday I was getting some consistent landings that actually kind of made sense to me. Plenty to work on still.

Thanks...

Simon

[piahenzi 0]

so, again, my point is that a 170 which I was flying would indeed be VERY boring for a Velo 84 pilot (or Katana 97)... anyway you slice it....there's just no really swooping that one...

[matt6242 0]

You may do this already , if you dont,take a few hop n pops and open at 5k +.Do absolutly nothing but practice flare. Pretend you are on final and practice to land up high 10 - 15 times,as much as altitude permits. You will find that when you practice a real quick flare it will swing you out in front quickly and the landing will be much similar to jumping out of a swing on a play ground at the top of its arc. Practice flare smoothly and slowly and tune in to what every inch of of toggle input is telling the canopy and feel it. Do this until you bored with the exercise. When your bored with it do it 10 more times. Chances are you will find the sweet spot and automatically apply it to your your real landing.
I just went from a Stiletto to a Katana and have spent my last 10 skydives doing nothing but practice landings. Good Luck!