Bolas 5 #1 July 16, 2007 What has your DZ done to improve landing pattern safety? Both for high performance and standard. Skydive Carolina, Chester, SC - Instituted a separate swoop area with "swoop shuttle" No turns over 90 in the main landing area. The winds were light and variable all weekend. Not only did they set a designated left hand pattern and landing direction for the main area, but after one load with quite a few people landing various directions , they stopped operations and had a meeting with all the jumpers. They dictated the landing pattern again, how to merge into it from crosswind or final legs if low, explained people are watching, and the consequences of not following the pattern (warnings or groundings). Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 July 16, 2007 Quote but after one load with quite a few people landing various directions. They stopped operations and had a meeting with all the jumpers ROFL ... WTF did you post this in the swooping forum? Yeah it's the swoopers who cause all the problems out there huh? Go ahead and say it ... ban swooping and all the problems in skydiving will be solved ... except that there are still far too many people out there who are clueless as to how to fly their damn canopies. Don't worry dude ... I've got this gnarly 23 way hybrid eveyone is just dying to try. Let's just wing it. It's all about the freefall isn't it. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #3 July 16, 2007 Quote ROFL ... WTF did you post this in the swooping forum? Isn't this forum about swooping AND canopy? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2819956;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Sorry, don't understand your reaction Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 July 16, 2007 QuoteYeah it's the swoopers who cause all the problems out there huh? Go ahead and say it ... ban swooping and all the problems in skydiving will be solved Feeling a bit persecuted today? Sounds like the DZO made a plan for ALL jumpers and is sticking with it...good for them!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #5 July 16, 2007 well frost set up a swoop lane away from the main landing area and that has actually helped a bit... it still doesnt keep people from setting 3 different patterns sometimes though which becomes a little sporty for me sometimes... okay we are landing this way nope oh shit someone is landing the other way ...oh well I will head down to the pond oh crap the slow boat to china canopy is landing straight in right over the fucking pond oh well let me change my set up again really quick...oh shit almost lost my toggle on that one grab the rears real quick ... oh well beer thirty for me... people are flying their 170s like 90 year old grandmas fucking oblivious... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #6 July 16, 2007 Quote Quote but after one load with quite a few people landing various directions. They stopped operations and had a meeting with all the jumpers ROFL ... WTF did you post this in the swooping forum? Yeah it's the swoopers who cause all the problems out there huh? Go ahead and say it ... ban swooping and all the problems in skydiving will be solved ... except that there are still far too many people out there who are clueless as to how to fly their damn canopies. Don't worry dude ... I've got this gnarly 23 way hybrid eveyone is just dying to try. Let's just wing it. It's all about the freefall isn't it. Steve, I believe the OP was referring to the NON-SWOOPERS as the ones getting a talking to for not following the pattern. Regardless, the fact that the dz stopped operations to fix the problem (be it HP or not) is a good sign that DZO's are taking the problem more seriously than the BSR proponents would like everyone to believe. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #7 July 17, 2007 Quote I've got this gnarly 23 way hybrid eveyone is just dying to try. Let's just wing it. It's all about the freefall isn't it. Thats a great idea CanuckinCanuckia. Let's do some CReW after we track off and open at 2k too. Before the meeting I was joking with one of our swoopers that some days I feel like I'd be less at risk ripping 270's in the HP area. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 July 24, 2007 Pitt Meadows has had a designated swoop lane for two or three or more years now. The dedicated swoop lane is in one corner of the regular landing field. Everyone else is discouraged from landing near the swoop lane. During Safety Day - this spring - Dave D. showed us a bunch of diagrams and explained various landing patterns in detail. At the risk of over simplification, everyone is supposed to fly a clockwise pattern. Most skydivers will follow the edge of the landing field to land near the pea gravel bowl. Swoopers peel off early to fly their 270 degree approach to the swoop lane. In the end we have 1.5 standard landing patterns. Skydivers who do not want to fly predictable, clockwise, landing patterns are encouraged to land at the alternate, which is 40 miles down the road! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #9 July 24, 2007 Quote oh shit almost lost my toggle on that one grab the rears real quick ... oh well beer thirty for me... people are flying their 170s like 90 year old grandmas fucking oblivious... You crack me up sometimes. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kamalasound 0 #10 July 25, 2007 In Rome, Italy, we swapped to a right hand pattern because most swoopers come in with a left hand 270; we reserved for ourselves a swoop area near the hangar and sent all of the other non swoopers further off in the field. We rule!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #11 July 25, 2007 At the Johannesburg Skydiving Club here in South Africa we have two landing areas, the first which is right in front of the club, is a pro-rated landing area in which there is a right hand pattern and for non pro-rated jumpers it is a no fly zone below 2000ft. The rest of the landing area operates off a left hand pattern and is open to jumpers of all experience levels. Our swoop pond is also located away from the main landing area so there is no interference between swoopers and non swoopers. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UPS 0 #13 July 31, 2007 At my Dz, it's been a while that we have a landing place in front of the Dz for C-D licence holders (they swoop the manifest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #14 August 2, 2007 - Landing areas separated by runway - No crossing the runway under 1000' - HP area lands in one direction only -- always -- regardless of wind direction - Main area always lands in the same direction as the first one down -- always -- regardless of wind direction (except tandems, as there is enough time separation) - No spiralling below 1,000' - Nothing over 180° in the main area - Must be approved by S&TA to land in HP area - Grounded for the day if any above rule is violated And I must say, everyone is happy. Those under docile canopies don't have us buzzing past them, and we have pretty dang clear air. That's not to say that we aren't paying attention, but it sure is nice to check your airspace and have all the room you need for whatever on at least 9/10 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 August 3, 2007 Quote- Main area always lands in the same direction as the first one down -- always -- regardless of wind direction I like your DZs rules (except the below) and congrats on being somewhere that cares about both groups. The word "always" is what really torques me about the "follow the first down" concept. So what happens in this scenario: Self stylized hot shot wannabe swooper is denied by S&TA to use the HP area until he grows some common sense. So, he decides - as first one down - to "follow the rules" for the main area - and does a ~90 degree front riser carve into a downwinder on a 10 - 15mph wind day. (we all know "this guy", he has between 20 and 12,000 jumps, may or may not have ratings, has jump between 2 months and 25 years, etc....... so denial of the scenario is futile) 1 - Do you really expect the rest of the load (with possibly some newbies, older people that can't run, people with older canopies that aren't friendly to slipping to a stop on their shoes, etc) to land downwind? 2 - Does the jumper get reamed even though he really followed the rules? It's a serious question, I don't like the rule for just this scenario - especially when there aren't separate landing areas, it gets even worse - as the first down is usually HP and wants to downwind and can't understand that the newbies in the load can't handle HIS landing direction. I'd have a rule that if the wind is above a certain amount, that first down (in the main area) has to land into the wind also. Make it clear, so that when it eventually gets broken, at least the 2nd down knows to land into the wind and not be a lemming and screw up everyone behind him. I'm not concerned about this so much for HP canopies, there's enough performance in most to accommodate safely stopping. If not, that pilot can wait for another day when the wind is less out of the (north, whatever)..... They have the option to go to the main area on those days. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #16 August 3, 2007 I jump at a dropzone that has a "first person down sets the landing direction" rule and I like to swoop downwind and tend to land first. Here's what I do: I ask manifest / S&TA / DZM if it's ok to land downwind if I'm the first person down. I make sure to tell EVERY person on the load that I'll be the first person landing, I'll be landing downwind and let them know where I'll be landing and NOT to follow me and that the second person down will set the landing direction. This method of communicating what I'd LIKE to do (if for some reason I am not the first person down then I don't do it) has worked quite well and neither the dropzone management nor any jumpers have complained or had any problem with it.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #17 August 3, 2007 pfffft - like you jump anymore Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #18 August 3, 2007 I let the tunnel staff know when I'm going to do a downwinder too Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #19 August 3, 2007 I personally like tetrahedrons. They don't move in a 2-3 mph wind which makes them perfect for no to low wind days. "Land in the direction the tetrahedron is pointing or land somewhere else." I just wish more drop zones had them. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 August 3, 2007 I find most do, they are just near the runway. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
