High Speed Cutaway's

[Para5-0 0]

I posted here, because I am interested in hearing from H.P. canopy pilots. I know most mafunctions on these chutes are high speed and spinning. MY question to Swoopers is, Have you had difficulty regaining stability after a high speed spinning mal.
The force and spin are usually off the charts, as I had a nasty one Sunday.

[packing_jarrett 0]

stability?

reserves are made to open well even if you are unstable.

But then again if you have the time there's no need to pull unstable... Thoughts?

I've had 1 emergency cutaway and 2 while I was test jumping equipment and one of those was just so crazy (spinning) that I waited to get stable. (under reserve at 4K

Na' Cho' Cheese

[CanuckInUSA 0]

That depends on how long you want to take before you deploy your reserve and how much altitude you had to begin with. What are our three priorities?

1) Pull
2) Pull on time
3) Pull Stable

I like deploying my main well above the decision altitude to give myself the most options available. But I have deployed my reserve while I was still spinning on 2 of my 3 cutaways ... and I'm still here.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[dharma1976 0]

I know my buddy had a nasty set of tension knots on his blue lines that literally cut through the lines when he pulled on his rears...

it took him a little bit to get it together to get stable after that...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

Pull, pull on time, pull on time and stable. Reserves are designed to be deployed (like any other canopy) with your belly to earth, but I think its more important to have something over your head. I know plenty of people that have fired their reserve on their back and been just fine, and I have known people that fired their reserve on their back and got proper fucked.

Usually with spinning mals, you can throw your shoulder over and get closer to belly to earth than flat on your back.

If you do enough tandems you eventually get in some carp situations that will make ya pucker. Landing a reserve and having line burn on your leg from the reserve lines is one of them.

[frost 1]

Yes, i have. 4 broken technora lines, nasty and i mean NASTY spin, one attempt to stop it, then realizing it's not possible, then chop. Couldnt get stable for a good 3-4 seconds. People on the ground saw me kicking like a little girl at 2000 feet. I got stable by 1800 and pulled the reserve.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Reserves are designed to be deployed (like any other canopy) with your belly to earth,

Close. Canopies are desinged to be opened with your belly to the relative wind. Right after a cutaway from a high-speed spinning mal, the wind is not always coming from the earth.

[packing_jarrett 0]

and its the spring loaded pilot chute of the reserve to help get the pilotchute away from you. Am I close?

Na' Cho' Cheese

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

as dave just pointed out (thank you dave) point that spring loaded pilot chute in to the relative wind and it is far less likely to "get away from you"

[davelepka 4]

Here's the idea - if you're spinning at high speed and cut away, you're going to go sideways for bit as you bleed off the force of the spin. During this time, belly to earth, is not the same as belly to the relative wind.

It's like trying to go belly to earth right out the door. It doesn't work because the wind isn't coming from that direction. When you dump out the door, you do it from a mostly vertical orientation, as that puts the relative wind to your belly.

After cutting away from a spin, it will take longer to get belly to earth, than it might to get belly to the wind. Time you may or may not have.

Of course if you add in the panic factor, and that you are pulling a chest mounted ripcord with your left hand, getting stable in any way is a pretty good trick.

All reasons to have a spring loaded PC, and a freebag. They help to offset some of the problems I listed above.

The real solution is to move your pull altitude on up if your jumping a fast canopy. Move your decision alt up as well. If you have 2500 or 3000ft under you after you cutaway, this discussion becomes moot. Cutaway, relax, get stable, and dump the old fashioned canopy thats still in your rig.

Keep in mind that the USPA guidelines for pull and decision altititudes were not made with todays HP canopies, or WL much over 1.5 in mind. This is a new game, sometimes you have to make your own set of (more conservative) rules to play.

[D22369 0]

several years ago I had a spinner on my fx, wl 2.1-1 when I chopped it surprised the hell out of me to not tumble, I had so much airspeed that I was stable right away, this is my only *knock on wood* first hand experience with a high wl chop with a vicious spin so your milage may vary.....

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[billvon 3,108]

>Canopies are desinged to be opened with your belly to the relative wind.

Not really. Canopies don't know where your belly is; all they care about is that the wind is coming from beneath when they begin to deploy, which is the case in every system other than the Skyhook and direct-bag static lines.

The rig DOES care about your orientation, since they use two different systems for canopy deployment. One works belly to earth (throwout or pullout) the other works better in almost any position (spring loaded PC.) Indeed, it is better to NOT be perfectly stable when deploying with a spring loaded PC, since a stable body position creates the largest burble. The Jumpshack user manual states this explicitly - jumpers should be in a head-high position when deploying the reserve (ideally.) Fortunately, the position you are in right after you cut away is head-high.

[Spizzzarko 0]

"jumpers should be in a head-high position when deploying the reserve (ideally.) Fortunately, the position you are in right after you cut away is head-high."

True That!!! Then the spring PC only has to clear your bean instead of your butt and legs and feet.

[cobaltdan 0]

as a hp canopy pilot i believe you must have a responsible hard deck.
i.e. for me it is not acceptable to deploy at 2000'.

i mostly choose to jump 'pocket rockets' because this is the discipline i love most in the sport. as such i normally open at >4k.

this allows plenty of time to:

diagnose and correct for a malfunction, insure I can plan and fly a clean pattern, holding if there is traffic, insuring my safety and the safety of others. Opening high increases my chances of a safe out, should my spot or conditions be off, and enjoy more air time to practice maneuvers and mock swoops, safely up high.

So with that said, if your low without time and unstable, deploy the reserve!
however given that your chosen discipline is to fly a hp canopy, you should never find yourself in that position.

Be vigilant, responsible & safe, do not get complacent.

Best statement that was made to be as a newbie in the sport was to the effect that “there are two kinds of people that will get killed in the sport with a hook turn: the expert that gets complacent and the person who says they will never do a hook turn” (because one day you will have to: i.e. a tight landing off, etc… and the time to learn a high performance maneuver is not to do so first time in a bad situation)

woops, end of rant.

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[yardhippie 0]

Ive had a nasty twister under a Velo 103 loaded at 2.15.

At first I thougt it was line twists, instead, it was some kind of crazy step through. It was spinning so hard it took both hands, and 12 seconds to chop it, and that was tough. I was on my back spinning like mad when I chopped, I rolled to my belly just long enough to see the ground before I pulled my reserve. My saving grace here?
I typically wave and pull at 3500', and in the saddle firmly by 27-2800'.
My other three rides are crap compared to this one.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[tbrown 26]

This NOT to bring up the RSL debate again. Rather, I'd like to ask if a high spped, highly loaded canopy in a violent spin would affect a RSL reserve deployment any differently than a more lightly loaded "average" 7 cell or 9 cell canopy ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !