ianmdrennan 2 #1 May 23, 2007 Well, I'm sure some of you know that the 'other site' has a thread about swooping head gear. I'd like to see the same thing happen here, if for no other reason than to start getting people thinking more seriously about protecting their noodles. So....what do you jump, and why (I jump a Pro Tec Ace Spade)? Do you consider the possibilty of head injury as a serious one? Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #2 May 23, 2007 I just switched to a non-skydiving helmet that i feel offers more crash protection. I bought a Giro, bad lieutenant in black. It is not crash rated like the protec ace spade, but offers more protection to my noggin than my old open face freefly helmet. I am thinking about buying a spade though, i like the thought of having the extra face protection as well. Don't want to mess up this beautiful face. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #3 May 23, 2007 Quote Don't want to mess up this beautiful face. errrrr.....it's so sad to see the mind go so young Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #4 May 23, 2007 I think he is just taking after me. I brought Sexy back and now all the kids want to do it... It's hard being a trend setter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie 0 #5 May 23, 2007 Kids, this is why you don't do drugs. They affect your mind, what's left. Tubing, so easy a caveman can do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #6 May 23, 2007 I always jump with a helmet because I hate to jump without my audible. I jump an old-school BoneHead Pimp Daddy Mindwarp. It's going to protect me from slight bangs and abrasions and that's all I care about. No helmet you are going to purchase and actually wear on your head is going to help you if you fuck up on your massive vanity turn and pound into the ground feet,knees, face at 60 mph. Most swoopers would be MUCH better off avoiding injury by getting rid of their capris and swooping in over-the ankle shoes and mx pants, plus some arm protection. Very few people pound their head into the ground on competition runs, but many, many lose tons of skin pounding in at the end of a distance run or shutting it down violently in the max-scoring zone of accuracy rounds. I have an old Factory Diver with the non-flip visor removed that I will jump occasionally, but that's about it. I would not expect it to keep me alive if I pounded in on my head at max velocity under canopy. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #7 May 23, 2007 QuoteNo helmet you are going to purchase and actually wear on your head is going to help you if you fuck up on your massive vanity turn and pound into the ground feet,knees, face at 60 mph. I agree and that may be true to some degree, but I also know of a few people who died after canopy incidents because of swelling on the brain. Do I think the helmet is going to prevent that happening 100%, no - but I definitely believe it ups my chances in that scenario so I see no reason not to wear something impact rated. Also, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a skydiving helmet (60 bucks) but if you're doing anything other than hop n pops its not a practical helmet. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #8 May 23, 2007 I might use these helmets in the future: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #9 May 23, 2007 There are many very good reasons to wear a helmet.. Tho the damage to mine wasn't swooping related[see pics]i don't think i would be alive if it wasn't for the fact i was wearing one..CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #10 May 23, 2007 I participated in the discussion of this subject on that OTHER site (good one Ian, keeping it politically correct ) I agree 100% with you Chuck. More body protection is needed. Swooping in man-pris and tight shirts? Nah. I lost 10 lbs of skin wearing a t-shirt during the 5 SE CPC comps and my weigh in records prove that . But if someone wants to have a good bucket for their head - you can never have TOO much protection. If i can find a good looking (key point) helmet that can hold my audible for less then 50 bucks... i'll buy it and wont tell anyone where i got it :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gainer 0 #11 May 23, 2007 I was recently in a swooping crash which resulted in the helmet being broken up into three major pieces anda gazillion others. The fact that I even wore a weak, off the shelf helmet saved my life. I am convinced that even wearing something will always help even if it is in the grand scheme of things a "weak" helmet. I would rather wear a helmet and never use it than not have one and need to use it. I know, it saved my life Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #12 May 23, 2007 sky systems factory diver for me. it's definitely saved my face more than once. one was a "little" incident with a tree on roll-out with my VX 84 at the time (see the end of the "carnage" video on skydivingmovies.com), other times i've attempted to dig a new swoop pond with the new technique of feet-knees- face-back- side-shoulder-face... (that's a new free style move by the way, called the "momma please help me" patent pending). yes, helmets are a good thing.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 May 23, 2007 Mischa, I totally agree. Anyone who has ever met me knows that my lower legs are both completely covered with tatoos. It took me exactly two seconds of sliding out a landing on the side of one leg at Perris in 2001 to understand the importance of skin protection in such environments. I have seen WAY more people withdraw from competitions because of serious road rash and ankle injuries than anything. I have only seen a couple of people hit their head. I refuse to take any discussion on the merits of one skydiving helmet over another seriously when it's being debated by people who routinely swoop in spandex or lycra (like bicycle fags) for "less drag". Seriously. Is your bean more important to you than the rest of your body? If it is, then perhaps you should reevaluate the way you enter a course. The only reason the Tour de France types wear helmets in some sections is because they are forced to. When those guys hit the pavement they get FUCKED UP yet they accept the risk. PST rules (and the two predecessors which I swooped in) aready require us to wear helmets in order to compete. Personally, I think every swoop competitor ought to have to wear clothing to protect themselves from the most-common injuries. I don't know a single swooper who has not been sidelined at one point or another by serious roadrash. It sounds to me like some of you (not directed at you, Mike) have a very-different view on risk management than I do. I haven't read the debate on Jim's site, but I can tell you that I have competed in a meet with Jim where he really fucked up a leg sliding out a landing in gravel at ASC in his manpris. I remember in 2000/2001 there were some competitors who really had a problem with being forced to wear a helmet at all to swoop. Hell, Luigi cani was compteting barefooted at both of the PPPB meets at Perris back then. That's back when the run-out area next to the pond was ALL busted up gravel and shit. It was nuts, but hey, he had a helmet on.... I am MUCH less concerned about what kind of helmet I have on my head than I am about what clothing is appropriate for the meet venue. Just my opinion, guys. What the fuck do I know, though.....I am an old guy now, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #14 May 23, 2007 Gotta agree...and disagree with you. It's funny this comes up now as we were having a similar discussion at the DZ this weekend. The fact is we are playing with WAY more energy then most of us think. I jump at Skydance in Davis and we have an asphalt swoop pond. As in an old taxiway...with sandy gravel on it. Now a lot of swooper that come visit think were high for swooping something so hard as asphalt. Got a news flash, Asphalt, grass, water, dirt it's all gonna fuck you up at 50 MPH+. Now I havent seen THAT many swoops gone bad. I have seen about every other way you can fuck yourself up done and done well. Picture cruzin down the free way at 65 MPH, now open the door and step out, this is the energy we are playing with. Chuck I'm with you on the road rash protection, but road rash is annoying, head injuries are for life. Now I'm a beer line swooper for now with a lame excuse for protection on my head (2kcomposites ff2) and a freefly suit. If I was swooping on the edge I think more serious protection would be warranted. Boarding helmets like the bad LT are MUCH better then skydiving helmets but I guess the question is where is the point when protection gets in the way of performance? Someone needs to come out with a line of gear for swoopers. PEACE! JasonFaith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #15 May 23, 2007 I have three different helmets - the Z1 is what I wear most of the time, because most of my swooping happens after RW loads. If I'm freeflying or hop n popping, I usually wear a Fibre Zone Composites HookR. It's a full carbon-fibre helmet that covers the ears, similar to a Cookie Composites helmet. Slightly tougher though. I've also got a Pro-Tec Ace Water which I'll start using once I can figure out the correct way to mount my Optima to it. Since the Optima is not waterproof and I need to be able to switch it in & out, I need to put my thinking cap on. Suggestions appreciated... The primary reason I went with the Ace Water was the exposed ears. Makes CRW easier, and the top swoopers at my DZ are really starting to extol the virtues of being able to hear the wind while swooping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #16 May 23, 2007 Quote Chuck I'm with you on the road rash protection, but road rash is annoying, head injuries are for life. That right there sums up my thoughts on the issue. Blues, Ian ps: And yes Chuck you're old. But hey, so is Joe Bennett Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #17 May 24, 2007 Quotehead injuries are for life. Again, it's all about your own personal risk analysis. I have rethought mine several times in my 26 years in the sport and I am fine with my choice of headgear. The people who put themselves in greatest danger are those least confident in their abilities, wo don't train effectively, or just do downright stupid shit in the name of "going big". This argument is sounding exactly like the motorcycle riding one. FWIW, I don't wear a helmet when I am riding my Harley in the state of Florida (or anywhere else I am not required to do so). I am supremely confident in my own abilities as a rider and I accept the risk I take by riding that bike in a prudent manner without a lid on at the beach or around town. I am not a "squid" and don't ride like an idiot. I, like every other person on the planet who has been swooping for any amount of time, have scuffed myself up a number of times. It's from those experiences, and watching plenty of others fuck up, that I make my decisions when it comes to gear and piloting techniques. Yes, head injuries are for life, but I am not counting on fucking up and pounding in. In fact, I do just the opposite. I skydive within my range of ability, know my limitations, and simply don't "show off." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #18 May 24, 2007 Quote Since the Optima is not waterproof That's why L&B have the "Protektor." If you use the Protektor, it will not only will your Optima/Solo/VISO be waterproof, it'll also give you a MUCH easier way to mount it to your helmet. And yes, it will still be waterproof despite there being an opening for the speaker. And to keep the thread on topic... I have two helmets that I use for swooping: A full face Oxygn with face shield removed, and a Gath RV I just picked up. The jury is still out on my prefered choice, I love both of them for different reasons. Furthermore, I've gotta say I completely agree with Mike/Frost/Mischa & Chuck... the Man-Pris offer a ridiculously small amount of protection! It seriously amazes me that people will spend HUNDREDS of dollars on these swoop shorts, when you can get MX pants for $60! Gotta love vanity!Cheers! --JairoLow Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #19 May 24, 2007 Well, after 5000 odd dives without a helmet, I found it was in the rules and so the bottom line was, if you want to compete, wear a hard shell helmet. At the meet in Wonderboom I wore a borrowed Gath. It was terrible. Uncomfortable, windy, and I doubt would offer any protection at all. At the recent nationals, I wore a borrowed Bonehead Pimp Daddy - with the velvet trim - and really, really liked it. After some thought, I ordered the new pimp daddy, that I recieved yesterday. It's simply not what the old one was. I'm disapointed, as it's the 2nd Bonehead "pimp daddy" I've bought. The last one made me look like a penis head. This one less so. Why they need that bump for an audiable when the other side does fine without it, I don't know. That's marketing, I guess. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #20 May 24, 2007 Mine, as seen in my avatar, is the true, old-school velvet pimp daddy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #21 May 24, 2007 Quote Furthermore, I've gotta say I completely agree with Mike/Frost/Mischa & Chuck... the Man-Pris offer a ridiculously small amount of protection! Don't you wear a spandex shirt? Quote It seriously amazes me that people will spend HUNDREDS of dollars on these swoop shorts, when you can get MX pants for $60! Gotta love vanity! And drive a Porsche!! See ya soon man!Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #22 May 24, 2007 Quote Don't you wear a spandex shirt? *Searching J.J's pics. . . YEP!! Quote And drive a Porsche!! *checking Jairo's myspace pics. . . YEP!! I just had to quote it!Love ya, Jairo, keep up the good work. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #23 May 24, 2007 Oh no, BUSTED!! Jairo, they're just jealous bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #24 May 24, 2007 Quote Don't you wear a spandex shirt? It's just Psychological warfare, my friend. When the other competitors see my GUNS, they have no choice but to cower in the back of the plane. ...or is that just because I farted?? I dunno. Quote And drive a Porsche!! Damn! OK...You got me Ian! BUT...I never said that Vanity didn't play into the whole skydiving/swooping scene. Like Mischa said, you gotta look good... If ya look good, you feel good, and you skydive & swoop that bit better. Although I agree that the Man-Pris offer very little protection, the first thing I did with my MX pants (yeah, the $60 ones) was cut off the cuff at the bottom, and hem them into Man-Pris! . ...And while I love my full face Oxygn for the protection and silence, I bought the Gath RV because I don't like that you can't see my facial expression when I grace photographer's lenses with my swoops! ... Besides, it came in a very nice deep & shiny blue that GathSports just started producing!! Furthermore, Your Honor, yeah, I drive a Porsche, but I got her on Ebay and paid about a third of what they are worth new :-P I did say that you gotta love vanity, right? I'll see everyone, their tight shirts, non protective head gear, and Man-Pris soon... Cheers! --JairoLow Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #25 May 26, 2007 I'm a true liberal...in other words I believe you should make decisions for yourself about yourself. I think helmet and seatbelt laws are well...unamerican! I miss the days when a motorcycle accident meant good trauma, not some dude with a broken leg. I also miss ejections! Before seatbelt laws we used to get ejections all the time, now it's mostly people with neck pain. The crazy thing about motorcycle accidents, and I've seen probably 500 of them over the years, is that it's rarely the motorcycles fault. Riding a motorcycle is putting too much trust in the general driving public for my taste. I've always wanted a Fat Boy till I had one almost land on the hood of my ambulance one morning. The truck in front of me hit the guy from behind while he was waiting at a stoplight...dude never even saw it coming. I realized that morning that it's not about my skills but the other jackasses on the road. Swooping is different. It's not USUALLY someone else's fault, that said it's what you don't expect that puts you underground! I don't think anyone should have the power to tell you what to do with your own body further, I respect your decision. You know the risks, you weigh your options, you make your decision with your eyes open. For me...I like my altered mental states to be self induced and temporary! If I start swooping big I'll probably go with a more substantial helmet. PEACE! JasonFaith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
