Herckydude 0 #1 January 17, 2007 Hi people, at this moment there are already quite some types of crossbrace canopies for sale. If I look at the results of the last competitions I notice the the Velo is the most popular. Why? OK, maybe because it performs better but is the difference so big? Is there a difference? If I look at the results of the competition at Sebastian I see that on a field of 27 competitors only 7 hav a (J)VX or Xaos. I expect the JVX to become a lot more popular because it's still a young canopy but what about the rest? Is the Velo outperforming the VX or are people just buying it because everybody looks at the PD team, they win most of the competitions so it should be the best canopy? In that case, very successful marketing of PD with their team! People tell me that the Velo is better than the VX, but these are not pilots who have enough jumps on them both be able to correctly compare them. (I think) Come on, shoot loads of info please! I'm not buying one, but I would like to have the comparison ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #2 January 17, 2007 I have jumped all three types. over 300 jumps on each. I like all three in a different way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #3 January 17, 2007 I can only speak for myself, but while I find the Velo, XAOS, VX and JVX to be great performing canopies in their own ways. The major syncher for me is customer support and product backing. There is no question in my mind who is head and shoulders above the competitors in that regard and a major reason why I chose, and recommend Performance Designs products. In the end it's mostl likely how the pilot balances: 1) Perceived performance. 2) Flight Characteristics 3) Price 4) Support Everyone has different criteria for the above of course edit: To be clear I'm not trying to 'pitch' PD here. Just saying why I chose to begin using their products their years ago and how it factored into my canopy choices. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #4 January 17, 2007 Even being PDsponsored, I ordered a VX exactly the same size as my velocities and jumped it about a season in my second rig on back to back loads (most of my jumps are back to back) to be able to really compare the different canopies. Later on I sold the VX again... In my opinion the VX had a better "best glide" and a slower rate of "slowest possible descent" in all other aspects I like the velos way more. I did some great swoops on the VX as well, but for those everything had to be perfect. In general I always had the feeling, that - coming out of the turn - the VX lost its speed faster/sooner. I don´t like: a)the high VX frontriser pressure, b)some of the openings I had on the canopy and c)its packing volume... Same size and loading the velo is much faster for sure... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #5 January 17, 2007 VX is old hat like the Velocity. More than 7 year old technology. More modern designs are available now. cough, cough, JVX, cough. The most popular could be measured by sales and I would assume the velocity would be the leader there. Just like Michael Jacksons 'Thriller' is still one of the top selling albums of all time. the best is decided by competition or most usually by the eye of the beholder."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #6 January 17, 2007 Quotethe best is decided by competition or most usually by the eye of the beholder. I'd say eye of the beholder. I've seen XAOS pilots kick the crap out of everyone (even JVX pilots), just like I've seen VX pilots do the same, as well as Velo pilots. I expect we'll see a few JVX's up there too from time to time but I believe, as usual, it's the pilot that will determine the winning, not the canopy. At this stage they're all good (and bad) in their own ways. IMO not ONE (and yes that includes the JVX) is far ahead of any of the others. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #7 January 18, 2007 *** I expect we'll see a few JVX's up there too from time to time but I believe, as usual, it's the pilot that will determine the winning, not the canopy. At this stage they're all good (and bad) in their own ways. IMO not ONE (and yes that includes the JVX) is far ahead of any of the others. Quote Just wait and see what's around the corner! MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 January 18, 2007 QuoteJust wait and see what's around the corner!Wink Yeah, I've got an uninformed feeling that this year we'll see a couple of new designs hit the market. Regardless, this is a very exciting time to be a swooper. Things have advanced to an incredible point but its easy to see where the sport will progress.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #9 January 18, 2007 AD, Yep there are a lot of material and design changes that are ongoing...should be fun to watch. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #10 January 18, 2007 QuoteAD, Yep there are a lot of material and design changes that are ongoing...should be fun to watch. BS, MEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #11 January 18, 2007 >I'd say eye of the beholder. I've seen XAOS pilots kick the crap out of everyone (even JVX pilots), just like I've seen VX pilots do the same, as well as Velo pilots. and also JVX pilots have stated that they instantly get more performance than they ever haveon there previous canopies (VX, Velocity and Xoas) in the first few jumps on them. Let alone when they have 1000's of jumps. Only time will tell us the truth. As Dave said it is very exciting to be a swooper at the mo and new designs are there but not released. I cant wait for welded seams and the fabric that was mentioned at the syposium a couple of years ago to be available. Up to 4x stronger than ZP and will create much less packing volume without the need for re-enforcing tape. it was mentioned that parachutes could have up to 60%less packing volume for the same area in square feet. time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping..... into the future>"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morris 0 #12 January 18, 2007 MEL, please tell us, what`s around the corner, I can`t wait to know. I don`t expect any further big improvements in performance in the future! Reasons are (for example) that 1.) If you compare the forwardspeed of a stiletto and a velocity of same seize and loading in regular straight full flight (no turn or dive) the velo is just a bit faster, but has a way higher rate of descent. This means that (7 years ago) we already had to put way more energy into the system to gain just a little speed. 2.) I´ve been told from the side of Icarus and Daedalus that we can`t make our profiles any thinner anymore (otherwise there wouldn`d be enough of a difference in the length of the ways the airflows have to travel above and below the canopy to create enough lowpressure on top to get the necessary lift, at least not at the speeds we`re flying with), so its all about reducing drag now. This shows by the fact that we´re talking more and more about linedrag and now even bodyposition starts coming more and more into the picture. 3.)We`re already very fast. SpeedCypres is there for a reason, we´re closing in on belly freefallspeeds vertical! - but in a turn the flightpath isn´t vertical, it´s a "verticalspiral", so to go down with "cypresfiringspeed" means, that your real airspeed on the flightpath has to be even higher! (How much higher depends on the diameter of the spiral.) ...to go just a bit faster now would increase drag big time. I believe in technology... but in the laws of physics as well... any opinions on that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #13 January 18, 2007 Morris, You will have to wait until after the PIA!!! Sorry! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #14 January 18, 2007 As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. I feel that canopy design is advancing quite a bit faster than pilot skill at this time. The human element is always the last to catch up to technology. Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Announcements at PIA is one thing, but releasing the product to the public is another. I think that the manufacturers may introduce some high speed low drag shit, but you and I will not see it on the market for years. Lord Slaton was jumping some sort of iteration of the JVX for quite awhile before it was sold publicly. I have also heard of PD products being jumped with amazing capabilities, but I challenge you to get one of those guys to talk without doing some Jack Baurer shit to them! I bet if you administered the truth serum to Jay Moledski all you would get out of him would be: "The new product is sweet, and by sweet I mean totally awesome!" Also what is this technology going to do for the average weekend jumper who jumps a spectre 170? Do you think that welded seams, or thinner material is going to be an advantage to the dude who makes three jumps every month so he can badge himself as a skydiver? I'm sure PD's and Daedulous's and other manufacturers' high performance stuff is a surprisingly small amount of their sales. TO take this thought to it's logical conclusion, I think that the truely qualified people who are jumping the current high performance stuff to it's fullest potential is even less than the amount of people buying them! Velocities and JVX's may be outswooped by the "Next Big Thing" but if those who are winning on these canopies jumped the next big thing then they would probably win on that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #15 January 18, 2007 Years from now can we refer to him as the EVIL LORD SLATON sent down from Emperor JYRO to instill JVX's into the swooper-troopers in the americas??? cause that would be fucking ill Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,566 #16 January 18, 2007 Quote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #17 January 18, 2007 *** Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Didn't mean to be... actually was/am pressed for time trying to catch up here in the shop. I do not need to spend a lot of time with a debate that might last for days with no ending in sight. The things that are in the background are: The ultrasonicly welded seams.. Nose Mods to increase canopy pressure.... Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy... Just to name a few. Now back to work... MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #18 January 18, 2007 QuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #19 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 January 18, 2007 Quote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #21 January 18, 2007 I think about this one all the time, and I can't figure out any way to make it work that's not crazy complicated, and has at least 100 ways to fail. Oh, and getting an adjustable angle of attack to survive an opening is another trick. I think it will take some new riser technology at the minnimum. Addtionally, handling and stall characteristics will vary along with the angle of attack, so the learnign curve should be fun for the first couple of years. Overall though, if you could maintain the shape of the entire wing, and dial out some angle to get back from a long spot, crank it back up for a steep dive and approach, and the flatten it out again for the swoop, you could way fast and way far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #22 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. god I want that technology will it take away the body rolls but keep the wingloading Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dlee 0 #23 January 19, 2007 Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 C_D = drag coefficient rho = density of air Area = area perpendicular to air flow V = velocity of air in short, yes Spizzzarko, you are correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Herckydude 0 #24 January 19, 2007 If this was true you Americans would have half the drag than the rest of the world ... now I know why you have the distance record ... Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 is not completely correct. It should be: Force drag = 1/2 C_D rho Area V^2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pulse 0 #25 January 20, 2007 QuoteQuote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc. As long as you're talking about parasite-drag. Induced works the opposite way, increasing as speed is decreased."Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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AggieDave 6 #8 January 18, 2007 QuoteJust wait and see what's around the corner!Wink Yeah, I've got an uninformed feeling that this year we'll see a couple of new designs hit the market. Regardless, this is a very exciting time to be a swooper. Things have advanced to an incredible point but its easy to see where the sport will progress.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #9 January 18, 2007 AD, Yep there are a lot of material and design changes that are ongoing...should be fun to watch. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #10 January 18, 2007 QuoteAD, Yep there are a lot of material and design changes that are ongoing...should be fun to watch. BS, MEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #11 January 18, 2007 >I'd say eye of the beholder. I've seen XAOS pilots kick the crap out of everyone (even JVX pilots), just like I've seen VX pilots do the same, as well as Velo pilots. and also JVX pilots have stated that they instantly get more performance than they ever haveon there previous canopies (VX, Velocity and Xoas) in the first few jumps on them. Let alone when they have 1000's of jumps. Only time will tell us the truth. As Dave said it is very exciting to be a swooper at the mo and new designs are there but not released. I cant wait for welded seams and the fabric that was mentioned at the syposium a couple of years ago to be available. Up to 4x stronger than ZP and will create much less packing volume without the need for re-enforcing tape. it was mentioned that parachutes could have up to 60%less packing volume for the same area in square feet. time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping..... into the future>"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites morris 0 #12 January 18, 2007 MEL, please tell us, what`s around the corner, I can`t wait to know. I don`t expect any further big improvements in performance in the future! Reasons are (for example) that 1.) If you compare the forwardspeed of a stiletto and a velocity of same seize and loading in regular straight full flight (no turn or dive) the velo is just a bit faster, but has a way higher rate of descent. This means that (7 years ago) we already had to put way more energy into the system to gain just a little speed. 2.) I´ve been told from the side of Icarus and Daedalus that we can`t make our profiles any thinner anymore (otherwise there wouldn`d be enough of a difference in the length of the ways the airflows have to travel above and below the canopy to create enough lowpressure on top to get the necessary lift, at least not at the speeds we`re flying with), so its all about reducing drag now. This shows by the fact that we´re talking more and more about linedrag and now even bodyposition starts coming more and more into the picture. 3.)We`re already very fast. SpeedCypres is there for a reason, we´re closing in on belly freefallspeeds vertical! - but in a turn the flightpath isn´t vertical, it´s a "verticalspiral", so to go down with "cypresfiringspeed" means, that your real airspeed on the flightpath has to be even higher! (How much higher depends on the diameter of the spiral.) ...to go just a bit faster now would increase drag big time. I believe in technology... but in the laws of physics as well... any opinions on that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #13 January 18, 2007 Morris, You will have to wait until after the PIA!!! Sorry! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #14 January 18, 2007 As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. I feel that canopy design is advancing quite a bit faster than pilot skill at this time. The human element is always the last to catch up to technology. Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Announcements at PIA is one thing, but releasing the product to the public is another. I think that the manufacturers may introduce some high speed low drag shit, but you and I will not see it on the market for years. Lord Slaton was jumping some sort of iteration of the JVX for quite awhile before it was sold publicly. I have also heard of PD products being jumped with amazing capabilities, but I challenge you to get one of those guys to talk without doing some Jack Baurer shit to them! I bet if you administered the truth serum to Jay Moledski all you would get out of him would be: "The new product is sweet, and by sweet I mean totally awesome!" Also what is this technology going to do for the average weekend jumper who jumps a spectre 170? Do you think that welded seams, or thinner material is going to be an advantage to the dude who makes three jumps every month so he can badge himself as a skydiver? I'm sure PD's and Daedulous's and other manufacturers' high performance stuff is a surprisingly small amount of their sales. TO take this thought to it's logical conclusion, I think that the truely qualified people who are jumping the current high performance stuff to it's fullest potential is even less than the amount of people buying them! Velocities and JVX's may be outswooped by the "Next Big Thing" but if those who are winning on these canopies jumped the next big thing then they would probably win on that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #15 January 18, 2007 Years from now can we refer to him as the EVIL LORD SLATON sent down from Emperor JYRO to instill JVX's into the swooper-troopers in the americas??? cause that would be fucking ill Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,566 #16 January 18, 2007 Quote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #17 January 18, 2007 *** Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Didn't mean to be... actually was/am pressed for time trying to catch up here in the shop. I do not need to spend a lot of time with a debate that might last for days with no ending in sight. The things that are in the background are: The ultrasonicly welded seams.. Nose Mods to increase canopy pressure.... Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy... Just to name a few. Now back to work... MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #18 January 18, 2007 QuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #19 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #20 January 18, 2007 Quote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #21 January 18, 2007 I think about this one all the time, and I can't figure out any way to make it work that's not crazy complicated, and has at least 100 ways to fail. Oh, and getting an adjustable angle of attack to survive an opening is another trick. I think it will take some new riser technology at the minnimum. Addtionally, handling and stall characteristics will vary along with the angle of attack, so the learnign curve should be fun for the first couple of years. Overall though, if you could maintain the shape of the entire wing, and dial out some angle to get back from a long spot, crank it back up for a steep dive and approach, and the flatten it out again for the swoop, you could way fast and way far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #22 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. god I want that technology will it take away the body rolls but keep the wingloading Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dlee 0 #23 January 19, 2007 Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 C_D = drag coefficient rho = density of air Area = area perpendicular to air flow V = velocity of air in short, yes Spizzzarko, you are correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Herckydude 0 #24 January 19, 2007 If this was true you Americans would have half the drag than the rest of the world ... now I know why you have the distance record ... Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 is not completely correct. It should be: Force drag = 1/2 C_D rho Area V^2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pulse 0 #25 January 20, 2007 QuoteQuote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc. As long as you're talking about parasite-drag. Induced works the opposite way, increasing as speed is decreased."Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rhys 0 #11 January 18, 2007 >I'd say eye of the beholder. I've seen XAOS pilots kick the crap out of everyone (even JVX pilots), just like I've seen VX pilots do the same, as well as Velo pilots. and also JVX pilots have stated that they instantly get more performance than they ever haveon there previous canopies (VX, Velocity and Xoas) in the first few jumps on them. Let alone when they have 1000's of jumps. Only time will tell us the truth. As Dave said it is very exciting to be a swooper at the mo and new designs are there but not released. I cant wait for welded seams and the fabric that was mentioned at the syposium a couple of years ago to be available. Up to 4x stronger than ZP and will create much less packing volume without the need for re-enforcing tape. it was mentioned that parachutes could have up to 60%less packing volume for the same area in square feet. time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping..... into the future>"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #12 January 18, 2007 MEL, please tell us, what`s around the corner, I can`t wait to know. I don`t expect any further big improvements in performance in the future! Reasons are (for example) that 1.) If you compare the forwardspeed of a stiletto and a velocity of same seize and loading in regular straight full flight (no turn or dive) the velo is just a bit faster, but has a way higher rate of descent. This means that (7 years ago) we already had to put way more energy into the system to gain just a little speed. 2.) I´ve been told from the side of Icarus and Daedalus that we can`t make our profiles any thinner anymore (otherwise there wouldn`d be enough of a difference in the length of the ways the airflows have to travel above and below the canopy to create enough lowpressure on top to get the necessary lift, at least not at the speeds we`re flying with), so its all about reducing drag now. This shows by the fact that we´re talking more and more about linedrag and now even bodyposition starts coming more and more into the picture. 3.)We`re already very fast. SpeedCypres is there for a reason, we´re closing in on belly freefallspeeds vertical! - but in a turn the flightpath isn´t vertical, it´s a "verticalspiral", so to go down with "cypresfiringspeed" means, that your real airspeed on the flightpath has to be even higher! (How much higher depends on the diameter of the spiral.) ...to go just a bit faster now would increase drag big time. I believe in technology... but in the laws of physics as well... any opinions on that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #13 January 18, 2007 Morris, You will have to wait until after the PIA!!! Sorry! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #14 January 18, 2007 As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. I feel that canopy design is advancing quite a bit faster than pilot skill at this time. The human element is always the last to catch up to technology. Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Announcements at PIA is one thing, but releasing the product to the public is another. I think that the manufacturers may introduce some high speed low drag shit, but you and I will not see it on the market for years. Lord Slaton was jumping some sort of iteration of the JVX for quite awhile before it was sold publicly. I have also heard of PD products being jumped with amazing capabilities, but I challenge you to get one of those guys to talk without doing some Jack Baurer shit to them! I bet if you administered the truth serum to Jay Moledski all you would get out of him would be: "The new product is sweet, and by sweet I mean totally awesome!" Also what is this technology going to do for the average weekend jumper who jumps a spectre 170? Do you think that welded seams, or thinner material is going to be an advantage to the dude who makes three jumps every month so he can badge himself as a skydiver? I'm sure PD's and Daedulous's and other manufacturers' high performance stuff is a surprisingly small amount of their sales. TO take this thought to it's logical conclusion, I think that the truely qualified people who are jumping the current high performance stuff to it's fullest potential is even less than the amount of people buying them! Velocities and JVX's may be outswooped by the "Next Big Thing" but if those who are winning on these canopies jumped the next big thing then they would probably win on that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #15 January 18, 2007 Years from now can we refer to him as the EVIL LORD SLATON sent down from Emperor JYRO to instill JVX's into the swooper-troopers in the americas??? cause that would be fucking ill Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,566 #16 January 18, 2007 Quote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #17 January 18, 2007 *** Mel you are beginning to sound as cryptic as Lord Slaton with your secrecy. hahahaaa Didn't mean to be... actually was/am pressed for time trying to catch up here in the shop. I do not need to spend a lot of time with a debate that might last for days with no ending in sight. The things that are in the background are: The ultrasonicly welded seams.. Nose Mods to increase canopy pressure.... Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy... Just to name a few. Now back to work... MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #18 January 18, 2007 QuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #19 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteProgressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 January 18, 2007 Quote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #21 January 18, 2007 I think about this one all the time, and I can't figure out any way to make it work that's not crazy complicated, and has at least 100 ways to fail. Oh, and getting an adjustable angle of attack to survive an opening is another trick. I think it will take some new riser technology at the minnimum. Addtionally, handling and stall characteristics will vary along with the angle of attack, so the learnign curve should be fun for the first couple of years. Overall though, if you could maintain the shape of the entire wing, and dial out some angle to get back from a long spot, crank it back up for a steep dive and approach, and the flatten it out again for the swoop, you could way fast and way far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #22 January 18, 2007 QuoteQuote In Reply To Quote Progressive changes in the angle of attack of a canopy Thats the one, right there. That's the real next step. is that going to work in the same way that say progressive springs work in a car? Yup, it'll asorb the bumps in the ground with less body roll. Don't get them in the pond, though, they might rust. god I want that technology will it take away the body rolls but keep the wingloading Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dlee 0 #23 January 19, 2007 Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 C_D = drag coefficient rho = density of air Area = area perpendicular to air flow V = velocity of air in short, yes Spizzzarko, you are correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herckydude 0 #24 January 19, 2007 If this was true you Americans would have half the drag than the rest of the world ... now I know why you have the distance record ... Force drag = 1/4 C_D rho Area V^2 is not completely correct. It should be: Force drag = 1/2 C_D rho Area V^2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pulse 0 #25 January 20, 2007 QuoteQuote As speed doubles drag is squared if I recall correctly. Increase in drag is the square of increase in speed. 2 times the speed, 4 times the drag, 3 times the speed, 9 times the drag etc. As long as you're talking about parasite-drag. Induced works the opposite way, increasing as speed is decreased."Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
