Changing from eliptical to X-brace

[pierre3636 0]

hi there quick question - i have done about 300 jumps on a 120 hurricane canopy and will hook up a 118 xaos 27 next .

im at 850 jumps now doing between 10 and 25 a weekend (weather permitting ) and have kind of told myself that I will hook it up and start jumping it at 1000 jumps which should be soon.

I'm fairly comfortable with the the 120 - in saying that i dont mean to say im a master and i can take my canopy to 100% max performance (all people are different - so i mean im proficient my ability)but i feel safe on it and the once or twice i initiated a turn 180 or 270 a little to low for my liking i could flat turn or abort safely with the canopy responding the way i wanted.

going over the to Xaos 27 108 or 118 (in a few 100 jumps) and my question is what can i expected ?

also in saying i would like to hook it up at 1000 i might actually wait a bit longer - i am def dont want to rush it.

i am already preparing myself to start in baby steps again when i change canopies. i dont really want to shock myself with a major change in canopy size / wing loading and a change in canopy type i.e. eliptical - x-brace .... is 120 - 108 or 118 a fairly tame choice in size on average (all people are different in the way they progress Im asking on average if there is such a thing)

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Swooopa-x 0]

Expect a complete change in flying characteristics bro. Everything from turn rate , sink rate to riser pressures and flare. not to mention those awesome xaos openings(blah blah) and the sheer speed that evrything will seem to happen at when you first cross to the new wing.
Not to change subject here but think about demo'ing all the diff wings you can get your hands on before making a decision about which one to go for. I'll help wherever i can p. no rush man enjoy the ride.
exciting times ahead - cant wait to go play dude.

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[pierre3636 0]

soon soon ... we should however put some weights on ur ass and go fly my wingsuit relative - me and rob got 2min few weeks ago and now i have a bigger wing

ok back to the thread

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Swooopa-x 0]

any particular reason you thinkin xaos ?

People dont care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[pierre3636 0]

im getting 3.5k off a xaos 27 108 with 50 jumps on....so price mainly but then also i like what im hearing about the openings - but alot of other x-braces also open sweet but just heard nice things - my main reason is the discount though

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[TALONSKY 0]

IMHO, I found while Presision has nailed the opennings on the 21 Cell their 27 Cell is a different story. I owned one second hand that had about 100 jumps on it. After I sent the guy the money he told me about its openning issue. In a straight PRO pack it tends to open with just the end cells inflated and they then fly together making a small unstable wing. This can be totally remedied by just pulling on the rear risers. I found after experimenting that if I packed it with the center 3 cells exposed and the other 3 cells either side just folded back under the slider it would open better. I could get it to open without just the end cells open however, it always had a very fast 360° turn to which ever side open last. As far as flight , I loved the canopy. I just did not ever get it to open in what I would consider good enough for me to wingsuit.

Ever wonder why you find the Xaos 27 Cells with under 100 jumps for sale semi regularly?
Kirk

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

I owned one second hand that had about 100 jumps on it. After I sent the guy the money he told me about its openning issue. In a straight PRO pack it tends to open with just the end cells inflated and they then fly together making a small unstable wing.

Yah Kirk, I know that canopy. You sold it to me and if I remember right, you never told me about the openings when I bought it from you. I had to call you.

[TALONSKY 0]

Your right, I figured since you flew a Xaos you would already be familar with the openings on the 27 Cell. I guess I was wrong, My bad.

[pierre3636 0]

im going to use it for freefly and hop/pop loads - i have a pilot 134 i use for WS jumps, im happy with that for my WS - i have enough to deal with on WS openings without having to worry about a canopy that opens diff everytime

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[TALONSKY 0]

IMHO, it is not so much that the Xaos 27 cell has such unpredictable opening tha I feel it makes a bad wingsuit canopy. It is that when it opens with the end cells inflated and flying together it is a twichy, kind of unstable wing. Yes all you need to do is pull on the rears to get it to open "if" you can get to them before it starts to spin up. On one of my intial jumps (Hop-n-pop) it opened in the above configuration but before I could get on the rears to open it up, it started to spin up. I got out of the line twist but once again before I could get to the rears it started to spin up the other direction. I was finally able to kick out and get the canopy open but it definitly got my heart racing. I guess where I am going with this is a canopy that either opens to the above configuration or opens with a quick 360° turn IMHO is not a canopy I would want. I think the Velocity is a better canopy and I personally love my VX. Yes the VX has really high riser pressure and can open kind of hard but both of these can be easily remedied. I personally want reliability in how a canopy is going to open first and performance second.
Anyway have fun, as I stated above the Xaos 27 cell is a great canopy once it is open.
Kirk

[BrianSGermain 1]

Hi Pierre,

There are going to be many things that are different between the two canopies, as you might expect. The most notible will be the longer recovery arc. This will allow you to turn higher, but will not allow you to turn low without significant rehearsal. My advise is this:

1) Find out how little altitude you can lose in your typical turn for landing. Quicken the turn, add rears during the bank, and even bang a bit of brakes during a harness turn to see which method bails you out of a mistake best. You will most likely find that collective brake pressure combined with harness input will be the shortest recovery from a mistake. Practice bailing out OVER and OVER. This includes switching from rear risers to toggles during the last part of the recovery. It may not be instinct to do this, but it is the best way out of a hole that you have dug yourself into. Lift your eyes to where you want to go and stab the brakes about a foot, regardless of your bank angle. Pitch pulls you out, not reduction of roll; that is secondary.

2) Find out how much altitude your canopy loses in a "normal" approach. This should include density altitude variance, which can be significant. Do test swoops at various altitudes, and work hard to make consistent turns.

3) Learn how to extend your recovery arc in the event that you find yourself high. Off-set double fronts are a very effective tool. If you are using rears or harness to initiate and carry out your turn, you will not be able to keep the canopy in a dive beyond a certain point without continuing the turn. That is a very silly way to keep your speed if you are in traffic, so practice the front risers possibilities so you have more options.

4) Use good instruments!! If your altimeter(s) are not perfectly accurate, you are playing russian roulette. If you rely completely on your eyes for the initiation, you are playing russian roulette as well. Start the turn at a consistent height (which is different from your huricane), and make modifications only to account for differences in air density. I suggest both a digital visual altimeter and an audible alert. These are great tools, but you still want to keep your "veto" power. If it doesn't look right, lift the nose. Notice what is happening during the process of the turn, rather than waiting for the turn to be complete to realize you have a problem. Know how high you are, and alter your flight path accordingly, as early as possible. That way the change can be minimal, which will result in a longer swoop and better accuracy, but you will also increase the chances that you will grow lots of grey hairs in your ears, eventually.

I hope your transition to the XB canopy is uneventful, and that you survive the learning process. I am sure you will. Just keep your eyes open and stay awake. This shit gets a bit dangerous, if you know what I mean...

Take Care,
Brian
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[pierre3636 0]

thank you very much Brian - these word and advices were exactly what I was after. I will go through all the drills and practise them untill second nature - Its my intention to keep it uneventfull
I do travel around a few times a year to dropzones at sea level while my hone DZ is about 4k asl. I will be carefull with the air density.

tx again ciao

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~