Newbie pond swooping, tips, tricks, advice?

[Peej 0]

[Mods: I started a new thread because i didn't want my question to get lost in the other JSC/SA swoop pond threads, hope that's cool.]

Alrighty, so let me start this post by saying BIG RESPECT to any and all of you dudes that swoop over water and in front of people, i made my first attempt at our pond this weekend and the only thing that i can say say for sure is that water swooping is a whole other beast!

I won't go too much into detail here but let me say that i over amped the whole thing, was way high and missed her completely i had planned to try again on Sunday morning and was much more confident now that i had an idea of what the pond and that sight picture looked like, but alas work jumps and a howling wind kept me from doing so. I'll just have to start work on that again when the DZ opens in the new year.

So, what i'm looking for here though is advice for people like me who are just starting to swoop water.

CanuckinUSA made a good start with: "the depth perception of the water is different than the ground... Plus I've also had to learn the hard lessons about not touching down until you've properly leveled off and slowed down a little."

(I was amazed at how much force you can generate by touching down too early, the dude that went across our pond before me made that mistake and the video was spectacular )

At the moment most of the aspiring canopy pilots at our DZ are seeking advice from Chris Beasley who was the only one of us to swoop over water previously at the meet in Austria earlier this year. Chris has given me (us) some great advice but because we have so few experienced pilots who have been over water out here i'd like to see what advice you can offer.

For example, if the depth perception over water is different from ground, what should you be doing to avoid getting fixated on the water and thus slamming into it? Should you be using the markers in the water as reference points or looking out over the water at the other end of the pond?

How do you tune out the crowd? There were like 40 people standing on one corner and just knowing they were watching freaked my head out completely.

I can't think of more questions right now but i'll listen to any and all advice you experienced dudes can offer. I'll add more questions as they come to me.

Thanks.

Oh and lastly, congrats to all the JSC pilots who did drag a toe or get close to the water this weekend

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[rhys 0]

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Oh and lastly, congrats to all the JSC peeps who did drag a toe or get close to the water this weekend

did any of them take a swim?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Peej 0]

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Oh and lastly, congrats to all the JSC peeps who did drag a toe or get close to the water this weekend

did any of them take a swim?

Plenty. Granted a lot of them were going big purely because now that we have water they can go big and try things like wingovers, blindman, etc.

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[cpoxon 0]

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Oh and lastly, congrats to all the JSC peeps who did drag a toe or get close to the water this weekend

I tried to drag a toe once, but I cheated and went across the width of the swoop pond! Ended up dunking my whole foot in the water! Luckily I wasn't travelling too fast and it didn't pull me over!

I was demoing a Vengeance 150 at the time. I managed to swoop the length of the pond but chickened out and travelled alongside of it. I think I would have made it (maybe not if I'd 'dragged a toe')! This was 2.5 years and 1000 jumps ago. Haven't been near water since

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[morris 0]

I would recommend to place your set up further away (than you would expect)...

[AggieDave 6]

Depth perception comes from the shores and ground around the pond, not from the pond its self. Swooping the pond is a lot like trying to hit entry gates. You need to setup for your turn so the wind helps push you to the entry point (which changes with crosswind, downwind or into the wind). Lets take a no-wind day. If you setup over your entry point you'll miss. You need to setup at the spot in which you will be in line with your entry point after you've completed your turn and far enough back that during that straight line and the canopy's recovery arc, you don't shoot over your entry point. Remember that while your canopy is recovering its still flying across the ground, not just down.

How do you learn how to do it? Practice, practice, practice, practice...and once you think you've got it, practice some more.
The most important thing to remember is that you can always swoop again on the next load. Don't push your limits to "save" a swoop and be willing to suck in the ego a bit, bail on your turn and land next to the pond if need be. We all like to hit it just right every time, but it doesn't always work that way. The difference between a good canopy pilot and a scary canopy pilot is to recognize that you're about to make a mistake and not make it, instead of putting yourself into a situation where you have to use 100% of your ability and some luck to make it away unhurt.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[marks 0]

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Depth perception comes from the shores and ground around the pond, not from the pond its self.

very true, you also cant judge depth by looking at the ground when landing, do the same thing you do when landing on the ground and you will be fine. the problem is, water is new to you and you want to stare at it, if you stared at the ground the same thing would happen.

set up further back then you think, do everything as if you were landing on the ground. also treat the water as is it was medusa, as soon as you look into her eyes, she has got you..... don't reach for the water to to touch it, let it come to you.

have fun.

oh, there is always a crowd, you will get used to it.

[dharma1976 0]

see my first water was the ranch pond swoop comp this last year my first three pond swoops were during that...wait all of my pond swoops are from the competitions at the ranch...

yeah I learned the set up stuff in a course before I hit the pond...but once your on the pond look where you want to be man...and inflatatable rafts hurt when you hit them at like 20 MPH :-P

have fun

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[chachi 0]

keep your eyes on where you're going to land and not where you want to put a foot down. you need to use your peripheral vision for touch down while flying your canopy to a landing. fixating on the water will cause you to fly into it.

don't be afraid of getting wet, as everyone has said you need to setup further back than you initially think. if you don't you will be diving to steep to make the entry (gate) onto the pond.

[superstu 0]

most common mistakes:
target fixation/ getting "sucked" in
reaching for the water
depth perception

tips/drills/advice:
do a few swoops like you would over the ground but over the water. this means don't touch the water, that way you take out the pressure of having to touch the water and reduce the amount of different variables your introducing at one time (ie different set up, sight picture, people in the LZ, ect)

When you get to the point you want to start laying a foot on the water do just that, lay your foot on the water. a lot of people try to jam their foot in the water like a fucking sea anchor or reach for the water just so they can touch water. laying it on the top of the water nice and smooth is just a great feeling, like a hot knife through butter. but remember to lay it on the water you MUST be planed out out and not still diving or sinking.

hope this helps start you off.

be safe...stu
p.s. Ian drennan, your a flamer

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[chachi 0]

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p.s. Ian drennan, your a flamer

ps. it's you're. you spell like you're 6, good thing you can swoop....

pps. cd is burned and in an envelope with your address, next step getting a stamp....

[ianmdrennan 2]

Lets stay on topic folks I'll be editing this post soon to add my thoughts on swoop ponds.

Blues,
Ian
ps: Stu, don't make me molest your myspace page again

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Peej 0]

Awesome, thanks for your advice so far guys! If anyone else wants to chime in, do so. Ian, i'm looking forward to hearing from you too

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[rhys 0]

bummer to read about the incident there!!

be safe out there

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Peej 0]

Thanks Rhys, it's largely the reason why i made this post. We're all keeping Dian in our prayers right now.

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

Be safe folks. I know we're going to be seeing a lot of good talent coming from you guys in South Africa in the years to come. But this shit isn't safe. I lost a friend of mine a couple of months ago after a swoop gone wrong. RIP Josh. I'll see you when I get there.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ianmdrennan 2]

A good deal has already been coverered in some way in this thread but here's my shot at it.

Starting out:
The temptation is great to simply go and drag water on your first pond swoops. This is generally not something I recommend. I believe it's a good idea for pilots to do a few swoops along the SIDE of the pond, over ground, like they were normal swoops. This allows the pilot a few things:

You get to swoop over conditions you are already comfortable with

You get to gauge how far you'll go, and where your 'touchdown' point will be. This will help you refine your setup with confidence

You will begin to get used to having water in your peripherals while landing

You will be less likely to get 'sucked in'

As the comfort level grows:
Once the pilot has reached a comfort level in this environment they then move over to the water itself. Once again, here there are some factors to be aware of:

Getting wet is not the end of the world. Fly consistantly and cleanly for the safest (least erratic) approach. Stick near the edge of the pond so you can bail out if you'd like to

Do your first few approaches with no intention of touching down. Stay 5 foot above the water and get used to being over it while giving yourself a little bit of a buffer

Don't swoop gates just yet. Focus on getting comfortable on where you need to be in your setup and how far you'll go. The likelyhood of 'diving down' on the gates at this stage is high and you dont need the added distraction

Don't stare at the water. Look ahead and use your peripheral vision to help with altitude cues. Also be aware that with huge ponds (like JSC and Mile High) your peripherals will be filled with water as well. Make sure you're looking ahead at the shore in some capacity

When you're finally ready to start touching water, gently set yourself down. Don't reach for the water, let it come to you. Be gentle, as Stu said there's no need to be an anchor and dragging water WILL shorten your swoop.

Don't do anything you wouldn't do over land!

Once you are comfortable over water:
Here the fun really begins. You get to start learning the limits of your wing.

Set up gates and get used to swooping through them. Remember to be careful of diving down on top of them. Being over water, staring straight down at your 'entry point' is almost a guarenteed way to hit the water....hard

Gradually start exploring the limits of your wing and your skills. It's critical to remember that as you begin to explore new things, you're going to easily fall into a 'rush trap' where you are doing moves before you've reached the surface of the water. Make sure you are level before trying your moves.

Be safe, have fun, and enjoy the water. It's there to help you when you screw up but it's just a small buffer. Great for horizontal speed (hence being level = good) but high vertical speeds can still have the same effect as the ground. I've seen people hit hard enough to blow their dytter to pieces and be lifeflighted out. No matter the medium, high vertical speed into the ground/water is bad

Hope this helps in some way. Remember to seek out advice from as many qualified people as possible. There are more than a few ways to start your progression over water.

Edited to add the obvious: Get coaching from qualified pilots whenever possible. Reinventing the wheel hurts, and is unnecessary
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dharma1976 0]

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Edited to add the obvious: Get coaching from qualified pilots whenever possible. Reinventing the wheel hurts, and is unnecessary Smile

Like the fact that there is no sppon...there is no obvious

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[ianmdrennan 2]

A word about gear maintenance:

As we subject our gear to the elements in the harshest way we need to be vigilant about maintenance. We need to be sure our gear drys properly (I prefer in shade with a fan blowing on it or even a high hop n pop) and that we pay extra attention to our reserves getting wet.

Terminal openings should be avoided and can be unpredictable at best.

As pointed out, SA has a 6 month reserve cycle.
My recommendation is, that after a weekend of getting soaked, that the reserve container is opened, dryed out and inspected.

Remember, wet gear wears faster and requires extra care. The price of pond swooping, IMO.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[parachutist 2]

Also I suggest putting your rig's data card in a sealed zip-lock bag before swooping the pond, cause some ink's probably going to run and some cards get tattered after wet/dry/wet/dry cycles.

Ian:
I'm looking forward to reading your post about pond swooping cause I keep drinking the one in Z-hills =p

[davelepka 4]

All I can add is that when you actually go to touch the water, keep your foot loose, and make sure it's able to bend back if the water catches it. If it's too stiff, and you dig it into the water deeper than you plan, it'll grab your foot, and try to pull you under.

Plan more on just dragging a toe, maybe with your foot turned kinda sideways. As an extension of the idea not to reach for the water, sort of set your foot in position, and fly it down onto the deck.

It's similar to docking in freefall. You don't want to reach for a grip, you set your hand in position, and fly it into the grip.

[Peej 0]

I did it at last, we had a private weekend of canopy piloting at the dz this weekend, small plane, no onlookers and a whole bunch of badass swooping. Here are two of the better pics that Kelly took of me. Thanks to Chris B for all the mentoring and to you guys for the extra advice. If i die tonight i die a happy man. *Juggernaut voice* I'm a pond swooper, bitch *Juggernaut voice*

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[AggieDave 6]

Fun huh?

Looking at the second picture, try putting your foot onto the water a little smoother/gentler, but it looks a lot better then then last time!

Have fun, be safe!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[audwiz 0]

Nice one PJ ! can't wait to get back up bro !

J

<<<< >>>>

[Peej 0]

Hehe, yeah thanks Dave my whole ass was wet after that one! It was so much fun though! I did 9 jumps in total of which i touched the water on six of them.

The photos are actually from two different swoops, the first one was really nice and smooth, plane out on the rears and dragged a toe right out the other side, unfortunately the photographer stopped taking pics of me to focus on her boyfriend the second was a rush tp get my foot down as you can see

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