Fitness and high performance canopies

[pilatus_p 0]

I've been watching a lot of swooping and HP canopy flying vids, and I love watching guys pull flat spins and other fancy schmancy stuff.

Do you need a good deal of strength to pull this stuff off? I mean, going into a dive for example must really put a lot of force on the rear flaps of a canopy - if you end up in the corner in a swoop, do you need to be Arnie to pull the brakes on?

Can you be an ace canopy pilot but built like Jerry Springer? I'm looking for Beefcake Drinks and steroids online if this is not the case.

Yes I know I need to get qualified first before I start worrying about this stuff ... but hey, I'm curious.

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[toolbox 0]

You do not need alot of strength to be a great swooper. Swooping is all about skill. You could smoke 2 packs a day,be fat and lazy,and be a great swooper.

[AggieDave 6]

Its more about technique then strength. However, if you're in decent shape you'll be better off. That goes for all of skydiving and not just HP canopy flight.

I'm in decent shape and after an altitude clear and pull in which I'm really pushing the canopy and really doing a lot of things I land a bit winded, but its never been an issue with strength. With larger canopies at lighter wingloadings it does seem harder to pull on risers and such and hold the risers down. So it still comes back to using proper technique so you're not fighting the canopy to hold it into a dive, but you're flying the canopy how it should be flown.

In the event of a bad swoop and a crash, being in good shape will help keep you from getting as hurt, sometimes. But that's still counting a lot on luck. So it still comes back to technique and not getting in that situation.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hexadecimal 0]

Rear flaps?

[AggieDave 6]

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Rear flaps?

I think he meant the floggles.

Ok, seriously, when I read it I took it to be meant rear risers.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LouDiamond 1]

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Rear flaps?

Yeah, not to be confused with the stopping strings you pull to land


In general, the better shape you are in, the easier it is to hold a front or rear riser down for a longer time before you become fatigued.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[pilatus_p 0]

Hehehe cheeky monkeys.

I mean the rear part of the canopy that folds down when you pull on the rear risers or toggles! To me they look like aircraft flaps. Has that bit of the canopy got a name? Someone tell me!

Stopping strings Thank you I feel silly now

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[LouDiamond 1]

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I mean the rear part of the canopy that folds down when you pull on the rear risers or toggles!

That would be known as the tail of the canopy. Conversely, the portion of the canopy where the air enters the cells of the canopy is known as the nose.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[pilatus_p 0]

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[phoenixlpr 0]

So, How is arguing with BatMan going?

[Vectracide 0]

Having good fitness can only help you in swooping, but not a necessity. Where I see it having a measurable benefit is in upper body strength for risers, endurance for back to back H&P's for good training, and a faster recovery if you do perhaps get injured. Who knows.....with the same exact scenerio such as wingload and impact speed and force......would a very fit man come out with less injury than a out of shape fat guy?

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I've been watching a lot of swooping and HP canopy flying vids, and I love watching guys pull flat spins and other fancy schmancy stuff.

Do you need a good deal of strength to pull this stuff off?

No.

You spiral with harness input; no strength is required there.

You approach at less than full flight for better accuracy; by returning to full-flight you get a surge that reduces the loading on the canopy and makes it easier to start pulling on the front risers.

[pilatus_p 0]

Cool! Thanks Drew. Does harness input really have that large an effect on turning the canopy? I have only experimented with gentle rear riser turns so far (yes I know, naughty boy) as alternatives to using toggles and it seems incredible that shifting in the harness could produce a spiral. How exactly is this achieved?

To yourself and other swoopers - Vectracide etc - how did you go about learning the swoop? I have taken a peek at the BPA manual on HP landings and it gives lots of good advice.

The part that confuses me is: Once you begin to try your swoops for real, how do you manage to eyeball your altitude correctly so that you don't end up either being too high, or too low and walking away with your teeth full of gravel? The manual suggests practising with altitude, but this will not give much 'gut feel' practise for where you are in relation to the ground.

Is this easy to learn, or are swoopers just wizards (or white witches, just to keep the conversational gender balance)?

EDIT TO ASK: Mods, please can we move this to the swooping and canopy control board? Many thanks.

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[pilatus_p 0]

OK I just watched this video, and I hear beeping during the spiral turn! I know your secret!!

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5061

Only kidding - I guess having audibles helps with accuracy, but can it still be done on pure gut feel?

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Cool! Thanks Drew. Does harness input really have that large an effect on turning the canopy?

It depends on size, shape, and wingloading. A 105 square foot elliptical loaded at 1.6-1.9 pounds per square foot is sensitive to harness input.

A 240 square foot rectangular canopy at .7 is not.

Configuration affects this too. With the slider stowed and chest strap loose you can apply more input. Some people like to move their legstraps down too.

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To yourself and other swoopers - Vectracide etc - how did you go about learning the swoop?

Poorly, experimenting over 1000+ high performance landings, being conservative when not current (no more than a 90), approaching things incrementally (400 straight-in landings, working up to 90, 600+ 90 degree landings; 600 jumps before getting to a wing loading of 1.6 and another 600 before changing canopies), video, and luck.

The incremental and conservative parts are good advice (there's always next week or next year), sticking with one canopy for 600 jumps was a fine idea (you need half that just to get familiar with the canopy), but being self-taught is a generational thing you should avoid now that there are formal training programs.

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The part that confuses me is: Once you begin to try your swoops for real, how do you manage to eyeball your altitude correctly so that you don't end up either being too high, or too low and walking away with your teeth full of gravel?

Experience. You can use an altimeter to fly a consistant pattern which gets you close enough, and adjust your approach if you're too high (slow the turn rate with opposite front riser) or low (increase turn rate with harness input). When you screw up (I did last weekend) experience lets you recognize bigger mistakes (it took me a while; currency and unfamiliarity with the landmarks / altitude were factors) and deal with them.

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Is this easy to learn, or are swoopers just wizards (or white witches, just to keep the conversational gender balance)?

Practice anything 1000 times being careful to keep things consistant so you can isolate the effect of changes and you shoud be able to do it passably.

[pilatus_p 0]

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... and adjust your approach if you're too high (slow the turn rate with opposite front riser) or low (increase turn rate with harness input). When you screw up (I did last weekend) experience lets you recognize bigger mistakes (it took me a while; currency and unfamiliarity with the landmarks / altitude were factors) and deal with them.

1) Does the rate of turn impact the angle and rate of dive? If you start too high and have to slow your turn, does this mean the swoop will be slower?

2) Do you have to readjust yourself every time you get a new set of landmarks, i.e. go to a new dropzone?

3) I've noticed a canopy will surge after applying full brakes for a short time. Can you swoop by coming 'straight in', applying full brakes and then using the surge? (I know I'm a bad bad monkey to be asking these questions before even taking CH1...I just love the look of swooping )

Hope the screw up you mention didn't result in any injuries!

How on earth do you have the time to fit in being a cutting egde linux programmer, pinball wizard AND rack up thousands of swoops??

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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1) Does the rate of turn impact the angle and rate of dive? If you start too high and have to slow your turn, does this mean the swoop will be slower?

No, they're effectively independant..

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2) Do you have to readjust yourself every time you get a new set of landmarks, i.e. go to a new dropzone?

Yes. Combined with a radically different DZ altitude (which affects how long your canopy takes to come out of a dive) it's even worse because all of your altitudes have changed too.

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3) I've noticed a canopy will surge after applying full brakes for a short time. Can you swoop by coming 'straight in', applying full brakes and then using the surge?

Yes but you're better off using symetric front risers, unless riser pressure would be too high as on a tandem supporting two people (in a stable descending configuration, the sum of the forces on the risers & toggles has to add up to the suspended weight).

When you let the canopy surge it gets in front of you and you have to pendulum back in front before your brakes can be effective.

Front risers keep you underneath the canopy so when
things go wrong you can correct sooner.

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Hope the screw up you mention didn't result in any injuries!

I got my jumpsuit muddy and had to wash it. The guys on the cessna will probably appreciate that.

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How on earth do you have the time to fit in being a cutting egde linux programmer, pinball wizard AND rack up thousands of swoops??

It's a side effect of not watching television and getting old.

Take a couple extra hours a day from not watching TV and instead play with Linux for 15 years, hang out in your guy cave equipped with power tools and pinball machines, make 150-200 skydives annually for a decade, etc.